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Japan tried to build an operating system for the world, the US intervened

xda-developers.com

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Re: Japan tried to build an operating system for the world, the US intervened

#41

Post by Hikikomori »

close04 wrote: post #27
Hikikomori wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you get trump, autocrat corruption without the planning.

> Or you get That "or" is described one paragraph down. It's the most common type of autocracy actually because it's the easiest to pull off. Incompetent and corrupt leader, access to an army, biggest temptation is for easy profit. Democracies are very susceptible to this type of leader in the short term. They start as populists and for a while it's easy to fool people into electing them. Until pockets and bellies st…

>Democracies are very susceptible

Some democracies for sure, having a US style president makes it much easier.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministerial_rule

Re: Japan tried to build an operating system for the world, the US intervened

#42

Post by corimaith »

tonyhart7 wrote: post #10
ColdStream wrote: post #2

I think it is like most software, especially in the OS space. The technology doesn't have to be the best, it just needs to get lucky enough to become a standard and build a moat with that. And by the mid 80's the moats were already very deep. Amiga couldn't over come the PC. IBM couldn't over come the moat of Windows with OS2. Intel couldn't overcome x86 with the i432 or Itanium. Luck and market forces from said luck…

apparently China decision to ban US tech company and build their own counterpart is seen as Genius after 20 years

No it's more of the US tolerating asymmetric trade. The whole point of that trade article was that Japan couldn't afford to loose the US market.

Re: Japan tried to build an operating system for the world, the US intervened

#43

Post by shevy-java »

> designed at the University of Tokyo in 1984

The USA is acting very hostile and selfish. Their own mega-corporations were protected and integrated into the military apparatus; currently we see this with Facebook forcing its slaves to use spyglasses. One can also see this with the USA attacking Iran - suddenly the promise "we will protect you" has been revealed to have been a lie. It's all about selfish powerplay. I think the biggest shifts we see here is that more countries will build up a nuclear arsenal (in most cases just defensive, to increase the cost of an invasion; in particular Taiwan needs that since the USA will not do much at all once dictator Xi will invade; we also saw that with Putin starting his genocide against Ukraine. That would not happen if Ukraine would have had a nuclear arsenal).

Re: Japan tried to build an operating system for the world, the US intervened

#44

Post by msephton »

lkirkwood wrote: post #39
msephton wrote: post #8

Great to see these screenshots. Thanks for posting! Nintendo joy cons run a version of micro TRON. And the software IntelligentPad used a lot of TRON concepts. https://blog.gingerbeardman.com/2023/05/17/intelligentpad-co...

Youre kidding! That's a great fact. Do you have a source for that joycon part?

Here we go! Press release.

2017.06.22 Nintendo Switch Game Console Adopts eSOL µITRON 4.0-Compliant RTOS and exFAT File System https://www.esol.com/news/news_57.html

Re: Japan tried to build an operating system for the world, the US intervened

#45

Post by corimaith »

SiempreViernes wrote: post #36
arkh wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the advantages of an autocracy: you don't need people's approval every 5 years so you can plan for decades. When you're right it is awesome. When you're wrong, well that's what the army is for.

The actual reality of how China works is much more complicated than this "select from a dropdown menu" system you are implying. For one thing it's made up of fairly autonomous provinces that all compete between each others, for another the actual strategy has been heavily relying on extensive local experimentation to find growth models that can be applied nationally.

Nah he's correct, local government compete on implementation details, not overall strategy that is monopolize by the central government. Which has the same pitfalls (-see zero-covid or the debt crisis owing to gdp targets)

Re: Japan tried to build an operating system for the world, the US intervened

#46

Post by shevy-java »

ColdStream wrote: post #2

I think it is like most software, especially in the OS space. The technology doesn't have to be the best, it just needs to get lucky enough to become a standard and build a moat with that. And by the mid 80's the moats were already very deep. Amiga couldn't over come the PC. IBM couldn't over come the moat of Windows with OS2. Intel couldn't overcome x86 with the i432 or Itanium. Luck and market forces from said luck…

> The technology doesn't have to be the best, it just needs to get lucky enough to become a standard and build a moat with that.

I don't know about that.

Top 500 supercomputers running Linux. I use both Linux and Win10, for instance (won't switch to Win11 no matter what), but whenever I have to use Windows, I wonder how this garbage could ever become so dominating in the first place. Inefficiency is very clearly a work culture at Microsoft; I notice this every time I copy data. And then wingers for Windows babble about how Microsoft does so much more behind the scenes - all of which is totally pointless. It is such an utter trash operating system, so I can not agree with "it it is ok to suck" statements. I much prefer solid engineering at all times.

Re: Japan tried to build an operating system for the world, the US intervened

#47

Post by Zecc »

socalgal2 wrote: post #17

Feels like clickbait to me. There were lots of OSes. Things like GEM, OS/2, Next, BeOS, GeOS, MSX, ... they didn't succeed and I'm sure you can write some clickbait article about why with conspiratorial anecdotes.

The title is certainly clickbait-y. But the content is still interesting. And not sloppy.

Re: Japan tried to build an operating system for the world, the US intervened

#48

Post by skeledrew »

readthenotes1 wrote: post #29
skeledrew wrote: post #20

Of course. Why would the US allow what's essentially their colony in all but name to control that much stack for a critical tech?

And we can blame greed of a Japanese man for actually causing the failure

Was it greed? Or was it a unified vision?

Re: Japan tried to build an operating system for the world, the US intervened

#49

Post by m4rtink »

arkh wrote: post #11
tonyhart7 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

apparently China decision to ban US tech company and build their own counterpart is seen as Genius after 20 years

One of the advantages of an autocracy: you don't need people's approval every 5 years so you can plan for decades. When you're right it is awesome. When you're wrong, well that's what the army is for.

It also makes feedback illegal, so corruption and bad decisions get unfixed, untill both not only eat any gains but make the whole thing collapse.

Re: Japan tried to build an operating system for the world, the US intervened

#50

Post by jdw64 »

shevy-java wrote: post #46
ColdStream wrote: post #2

I think it is like most software, especially in the OS space. The technology doesn't have to be the best, it just needs to get lucky enough to become a standard and build a moat with that. And by the mid 80's the moats were already very deep. Amiga couldn't over come the PC. IBM couldn't over come the moat of Windows with OS2. Intel couldn't overcome x86 with the i432 or Itanium. Luck and market forces from said luck…

> The technology doesn't have to be the best, it just needs to get lucky enough to become a standard and build a moat with that. I don't know about that. Top 500 supercomputers running Linux. I use both Linux and Win10, for instance (won't switch to Win11 no matter what), but whenever I have to use Windows, I wonder how this garbage could ever become so dominating in the first place. Inefficiency is very clearly a wo…

But the idea that Windows is a "better OS" really seems accurate for people in the Third World. This is because Korean language support on Linux is terrible, and since all the commands are in English, it takes quite a bit of time to get used to it. Not only that, but there are so many distributions that you do not even know what to configure, and rather than doing RTFM, I just want to get my "work" done.

In that regard, I honestly think Linux is better once you master it, but realistically, Windows is much more casual and practical. You might disagree, but for people outside the Anglosphere, Windows is far more casual.

To be completely honest, the vast majority of people do not even like looking at PowerShell or terminal windows. It is familiar to programmers like us, but honestly, I do not like looking at terminal windows either. I would much rather look at an IDE. In the English speaking Linux world, you just map ASCII, but we need things like ibus or fcitx. On top of that, there have been CJK input method fragmentation and conflict issues for over 20 years. I think this gap exists because they cannot understand a situation where you have to debug an "input method config file" just because you want to type some text.

Windows is a black box platform where multilingual rendering and the Office ecosystem are perfectly integrated. Only a very small fraction of its API is exposed. However, for the vast majority of applications, that is more than enough. The idea that Linux is great applies mostly to English speaking developers or those who want to fit into that English speaking development culture, but from a pure usability standpoint, I believe Windows is better.

Linux is technically a glass box, but honestly, no one can understand every single part of it, meaning it practically functions as a cognitive black box anyway.

Furthermore, Windows supports true plug and play where hardware just works the moment you connect it. Linux does not. Debating whether Linux or Windows is technically superior is meaningless, but I absolutely do not agree with the claim that Windows is terrible. Many Americans argue that Linux is better once you learn how to use it properly, but the moment you step outside the US, Linux becomes a flawed system where nothing works as it should.

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