Making TUIs isn't the issue. Making them with JS/TS, and in general an ecosystem designed for the web, is the problem. I've used some really good TUI apps in the past, but all these new ones mostly based on web tech are just... sloppily bad. Probably because the dev would rather be in the web browser where it's naturally colorful and scripts can run wild, but mostly-static terminal is where things are currently at. And they're using LLMs, which don't have sufficient data on web-tech-in-terminal since it wasn't really a thing until now, which also ensures they will likely never gain enough data on decent patterns since almost nobody will be engineering said patterns, creating a permanently slop-ridden cycle as future models only have slop projects to learn from.
Stop Making TUIs
41–50 of 579 posts
Re: Stop Making TUIs
#42Yesterday I was flipping between some TUIs, native apps, web apps and an electron app. I think it was only because I was trying to do a lot in each of them I became really aware of the latency lag in some of these.
There are real advantages of TUIs: less CPU; sometimes I want to be using a personal TUI on a personal dev server quickly from a work laptop at lunchtime and an ssh + tmux + TUI is perfect; most modern TUI libraries are significantly less painful to work with than most modern web app frontend libraries; I can change the font size of my terminal easily if I need to, more easily than native (but not web app). But by far the biggest, is they just generally tend to be very fast and responsive compared to everything else.
Re: Stop Making TUIs
#43Incoherent and far too long . Lists a bunch of things . Fails to make any clear points . Fails to give real reasons for the few claims it makes .
Spent 2 minutes skimming, didn't manage to find a single talking point. I've no idea what the thesis is. Seemed like a list of things this person built.
People talk shit about LLM writing. Well, here's a prime example of why I like LLM-speak. Does this article have personality? Yes. Attitude? Yes. Is it structured and accessible? No.
I'll take clarity over personality any day of the week.
Re: Stop Making TUIs
#44You know what's awesome about TUIs? They live in a tab in my terminal. 95% of the time, my system has three windows open: terminal, browser, Signal. Please, make more TUIs and web apps, so they can live in my terminal or my browser.
Bubble Tea [1] is my favorite for one-off throwaway stuff in terminal. Wish [2] to make it available over SSH.
Re: Stop Making TUIs
#45[deleted]
Re: Stop Making TUIs
#46Are there not disparities between running an application in the terminal and running a native GUI? I can only speak for macOS, but my experience with bespoke native GUI applications of my own or other developers (pre-built distributions in GitHub assets) is that I must first pass through the layers of the macOS security model: doing a right-click dance to launch the application, changing permissions in security settings, etc. I assume the experience is different depending on how you set up Xcode to compile, how it's signed, etc (I have zero experience with how this works). That said, I do not recall being subjected to any of this using terminal applications.
Put differently, a GUI application seems to subject you far more to the whims of Apple or Windows than a TUI and perhaps even a different run context. Maybe the permissions fiddling for this is insignificant. Is there a clear user contract from Apple or Microsoft about this?
Naturally, this is a non-issue in Linux.
Re: Stop Making TUIs
#47So wrong.
They're fast, efficient, work across SSH, in a tmux, and survive the almost daily browser upgrades.
And they are easy to run as separate users without VNC or sandbox hell.
Like do you want to think about X/Wayland isolation, or do you just want to get shit done?
Re: Stop Making TUIs
#48As someone who works on a very GUI-centric OS (i.e. Mac), TUIs just don't integrate very well with the rest of the non-Terminal ecosystem.
They don't support standard GUI shortcuts. They don't support drag-and-drop. I can't double-click a file and have it open in a TUI. They don't integrate with spotlight metadata. They don't ship document icons. They have terrible support for accessibility APIs. And so on...
Re: Stop Making TUIs
#49Question about Markdown, I'm intrigued by this. I recently bought FS Notes but it has some bizarre bugs on startup. I might consider some other tool, perhaps also something with better MD support. Is this library you mentioned truly fast? https://github.com/gonzalezreal/swift-markdown-ui
Re: Stop Making TUIs
#50One of the biggest upsides of TUIs over GUIs is that I can run any number of TUI instances. Meanwhile a GUI's developer has to decide to grace me with the ability to even open more than one window. "A tabbed interface will be sufficient!" -- yay, I'll never be able to view two screens of info at the same time.
Opening more than one instance is the default, developers have to actively work to block it. At least on desktop.
Which desktop?
It's not true for AppKit, SwiftUI, GTK, Qt, WinUI, or Electron, and I'm not sure what's left.