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Japan tried to build an operating system for the world, the US intervened

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Re: Japan tried to build an operating system for the world, the US intervened

#31

Post by RealityVoid »

haunter wrote: post #9

TRON wasn’t just an OS but a whole integrated system, it was meant to be used with different parts working together. There was a whole TRON house tech demo built in Tokyo back in 1989 https://youtu.be/7jPKEyM44GU If you want to try here is the BTRON 4.5 media, should work in modern VMs https://archive.org/details/chokanji https://youtu.be/yYfoCe6q28A https://social.tchncs.de/@nina_kali_nina@tech.lgbt/111885034...

Hah, I realize I actually encountered this family in the form of a T-kernel offshoot that I evaluated for some automotive safety relevant application.

Re: Japan tried to build an operating system for the world, the US intervened

#32

Post by jdw64 »

Because the final consumers are ultimately Americans with purchasing power, this structure inherently makes it easy for the US to dominate the standards. As a result, it is extremely difficult for economically lower tier countries to preemptively establish new standards. Furthermore, the profits taken by those who bring American products into local regions present another issue.

In reality, under this system, those who bring back American advancements through avenues like studying abroad profit by exploiting the technological gap between the US and their home country. (Masayoshi Son from the article is no different.) And the people who go to study in the US are predominantly from upper class families. Within this structure, countries that are heavily dependent on exports to the US are particularly vulnerable.

At such a juncture, no matter how much academic curiosity drives the effort, attempting to destroy the established standard might be technically correct, but it was a politically incorrect judgment.

Re: Japan tried to build an operating system for the world, the US intervened

#33

Post by touristtam »

close04 wrote: post #18
tonyhart7 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can badmouth about China all you want but at least they are consistent where they stand while US flip flopping about invading middle east (like usual) or Greenland

GP isn't "badmouthing" China, that description applies to every non-democratic country, one leader with the power, not the people. Autocracies are great in the hands of a competent leader who plans the economy long term, and the grows of the country for the benefit of the country and society (look up "benevolent dictators"). They are not afraid of long term plans, or pleasing the population in the short term. He can…

I don't think this democratic vs autocratic framing is entirely correct; most of the commenters here fail to mention the political ideology of capitalism. Pre-2000 several European nation had long term plans despite being democracies. The move to further integrate into the EU meant added political pressure to adopt more liberal postures like breaking state ownership of essential industries and that meant also no more of those medium to long term plans for those states.

This isn't China vs the rest, this is US Capitalist view of the world vs the rest. China in this present conversation is only an example of a country that has not succumbed to the desiderata of the unrestrained Capitalist.

Re: Japan tried to build an operating system for the world, the US intervened

#34

Post by bulbar »

childintime wrote: post #19
specproc wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The report stated that the US had concerns about Japanese government market intervention to support the TRON OS and identified two specific markets where TRON was receiving government advantage. The US government is one hell of a moat.

The financial center of the world selects its winners nearby. As simple as that. Businesses outside of the US have never had much of a chance. China does the same now, as the engineering center of the world. And they have to because the financial center is hyping them as a threat.

A dictatorship with the explicit goal of invading Taiwan, which is not only a close ally, but also of global geostrategic importance.

That's not "hype".

Re: Japan tried to build an operating system for the world, the US intervened

#35

Post by kalleboo »

krige wrote: post #7
ColdStream wrote: post #2

I think it is like most software, especially in the OS space. The technology doesn't have to be the best, it just needs to get lucky enough to become a standard and build a moat with that. And by the mid 80's the moats were already very deep. Amiga couldn't over come the PC. IBM couldn't over come the moat of Windows with OS2. Intel couldn't overcome x86 with the i432 or Itanium. Luck and market forces from said luck…

> Amiga couldn't over come the PC. For reasons that had nothing to do with OS. Swap Steve Jobs with Irving Gould and Apple would be dead in under a decade too.

Tramiel left Commodore in 1984 after battling Gould and Jobs left Apple in 1985 after battling Sculley. Apple then went on to have terrible management for over a decade, with people like Michael Spindler trying their best to run the company into the ground.

Apple only survived as long as they did since they had really fat margins on their machines so e.g. the Apple II could subsidize the Macintosh for years. Commodore's focus on low cost made it a lot more difficult for them to e.g. fund the evolution of the Amiga properly.

Re: Japan tried to build an operating system for the world, the US intervened

#36

Post by SiempreViernes »

arkh wrote: post #11
tonyhart7 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

apparently China decision to ban US tech company and build their own counterpart is seen as Genius after 20 years

One of the advantages of an autocracy: you don't need people's approval every 5 years so you can plan for decades. When you're right it is awesome. When you're wrong, well that's what the army is for.

The actual reality of how China works is much more complicated than this "select from a dropdown menu" system you are implying.

For one thing it's made up of fairly autonomous provinces that all compete between each others, for another the actual strategy has been heavily relying on extensive local experimentation to find growth models that can be applied nationally.

Re: Japan tried to build an operating system for the world, the US intervened

#39

Post by lkirkwood »

msephton wrote: post #8

Great to see these screenshots. Thanks for posting! Nintendo joy cons run a version of micro TRON. And the software IntelligentPad used a lot of TRON concepts. https://blog.gingerbeardman.com/2023/05/17/intelligentpad-co...

Youre kidding! That's a great fact. Do you have a source for that joycon part?

Re: Japan tried to build an operating system for the world, the US intervened

#40

Post by tonyhart7 »

hvb2 wrote: post #16
tonyhart7 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can badmouth about China all you want but at least they are consistent where they stand while US flip flopping about invading middle east (like usual) or Greenland

I don't think he was badmouthing China at all. He's basically using different words to make the exact same point you're trying to make. When there's no real accountability, in a reasonable timeframe, it's much easier to plan long term. It's the same within companies. When the CEO assumes he'll be around for 5 years, should he shoot for the 10 year goal and reduce outcomes in the early years? Or does he just optimize…

"When you're wrong, well that's what the army is for."

he is implying that China bad action can be solved by PL red Army

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