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Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does it without consequence

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Re: Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does it without consequence

#311

Post by teekert »

milkytron wrote: post #3

The part that still bothers me so much about the US vs Swartz case is that JSTOR didn't pursue civil litigation against Aaron. It was the US government that pursued him. There was little for the government to lose in the case. In a case vs Meta, at the scale it has reached, it could have wide ranging economic implications limiting the investment in AI, which the US is absolutely not willing to pursue at this point in…

This is the (John Perkin's coined term) "Corporatocracy" at work.

If you want to know how and why it is like this, read Perkin's books (atm I'm reading "The New Confessions of an Economic Hit Man"). It's why Meta will not get sued but Aaron was, and it is why ships are now lining up in front of the Panama canal paying as much as 400k for a crossing with little of that wealth making it to the people of Panama.

Re: Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does it without consequence

#312

Post by rsingel »

badlibrarian wrote: post #133

I don't like talking about this, but first hand knowledge is rarer by the day, and there are entire organizations profiting off this mythology. It's pissing me off. Aaron is not a data point to build stupid metaphors around. He was a bright and broken child. Aaron attracted influential and creepy people and was ill-equipped to handle it. He was also working through a period of sexual awakening while being used by old…

[flagged]

Re: Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does it without consequence

#313

Post by tzs »

greyface- wrote: post #172
sillysaurusx wrote: post #60

He wasn’t prosecuted for scraping. He trespassed into a room with a router, plugged his laptop into it, downloaded papers as quickly as possible, and then rotated his MAC address to dodge the bans that the admin was trying to place on him. That’s very different from downloading a webpage on the open internet. I’m not saying he should or shouldn’t have been prosecuted, but there’s some kind of rose tinted glasses filt…

> trespassed into a room A room with an unlocked and unmarked door, off of a hallway that was open to the general public. An INCREDIBLY tame act compared to other unprosecuted trespasses normalized and celebrated at https://hacks.mit.edu/ . > rotated his MAC address Not a crime; in fact now a widespread and default practice for consumer Wi-Fi/Bluetooth devices.

You are greatly underestimating what was going on.

Over the course of months they tried all kinds of blocking methods that would stop most people, but he kept evading them. It is impossible that he did not know his use of the free access was no longer authorized.

Then he put his equipment on their wired network, which he had no permission to do so and had to trespass to do that. It is irrelevant that the door was unlocked and in a hallway the public could get to. It being unmarked just makes it worse, since doors the public is supposed to use generally are marked.

He also repeatedly came back to that room to check his equipment.

He was now grabbing data at such a high rate that JSTOR cut off all MIT JSTOR access for a few days while they tried to figure out what do next.

At that point MIT research is being disrupted. MIT does a lot of government research and what was going on was indistinguishable at that point from a hostile attack, and police were called.

Re: Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does it without consequence

#315

Post by xxs »

alightsoul wrote: post #285
goldie_wilson wrote: post #185

Maybe I'm missing something, but didn't Aaron break into an MIT network closet and then spoof and use exploits to secure data vs Meta who is just scraping everything that can be found on the public web. I despise just about everything Meta does, but it seems like people are quick to compare two situations that are not identical so they can further their "big corp and America = bad" agendas.

Oh my god I have seen this argument here repeated so many times with different rephrasings. I do not want to believe it is a bot or astroturfing.

brand new account and all that...

Re: Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does it without consequence

#316

Post by uarefag »

arionhardison wrote: post #239
unpop wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You are a coward; which is why you cannot use your name or identity and only feel comfortable insulting people online because it makes you feel like a big bad keyboard warrior. I feel bad for you because not only is your argument irrational and baseless its not even entertaining. I am not one of the "thugs" that harassed him. I never met him; but I was a huge fan. I am also not employed by anyone that would participa…

[dead]

Re: Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does it without consequence

#317

Post by uarefag »

photochemsyn wrote: post #227
unpop wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

How would it help the world for Aaron Swartz to download 3.5 million research and primary source PDFs? Example 1: antibiotic and antiviral production technology for developing countries. Even if we limit ourselves to out-of-patent molecules, the primary literature describing the discovery, production, modification and testing of life-saving antibiotics was, at the time of Aaron Swartz, largely hidden behind strict pa…

[flagged]

Re: Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does it without consequence

#318

Post by xigoi »

MattDamonSpace wrote: post #79
PenguinCoder wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Information should be free.

“People who generate valuable information should be uncompensated”

How much money do you think the scientists who wrote the papers are getting from the access fees? (Hint: it’s the only number that stays the same when you multiply it by sometting.)

Re: Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does it without consequence

#320

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

loeg wrote: post #241
mcv wrote: post #73

I recently came to the conclusion that it was never about copyright. It's about corporate control, about punishing contempt for business model. Aaron Swartz was punished because he disrespected a business model. All the kids sued by the MAFIAA were punished because they disrespected a business model. Copyright was merely the mechanism to make it stick. But AI companies and Meta can disrespect copyright all they want,…

What do you think copyright is in service of? It doesn’t exist for its own sake.

It provides a legal justification for censorship. Originally used by The Church to prevent the wrong sort of bible from being printed. It has always been about insulating monopolists and gatekeepers against change.

We desperately need to find better ways to pay creators, and it's good that they've managed to put copyright law to some non-nefarious use towards that end. But they deserve something that actually meets their needs, which copyright law does not.

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