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HTML Can Do That

chrisburnell.com

181–190 of 249 posts

Re: HTML Can Do That

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When we will pretend a drawing api we can call directly from webassembly? Hopefully, never. There's enough ad-blocking arms race as it is.

You confuse marketing websites with productivity apps, google docs, figma and many more already render on a canvas using webassembly or not. It's a matter of exposing the right tools

There's friction to doing it this way right now, though. You lose out quickly on accessibility, SEO, performance and developer experience (you need developers that are more experienced).

Unfortunately, thinking about it in terms of game theory [0], I believe this is a good thing: I don't want most websites migrating to canvas-like APIs for rendering. My web browser is my agent and I'd like it to mostly render DOM-rendered pages with CSS styling and, perhaps, funny JavaScript that doesn't track me around.

Also, I wish Figma and Google Docs were just offline-usable desktop applications. Both are great _products_ and I use them, but using them on a browser tab makes me unhappy.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_theory

Re: HTML Can Do That

#182

The older I get, the less I want to use new browser features that have already been somehow possible with existing ones that typically have been around for literal decades. Adopting them makes a future with multiple browser engines more labor intensive and unlikely as the number of standards targets one is required to support grows and it becomes a game of asking yourself what sites you want your browser to support.…

You started that off by raising an interesting point. Pity you had to ruin it by telling us you're exceptionally thoughtful and profound, and that those who disagree, suck! It's true, the amount of work that would be needed nowadays has made the idea of building a new browser engine almost impossible (I don't know how the Ladybird devs are getting on). It's a reason to encourage people to support Firefox on desktop,…

[deleted]

Re: HTML Can Do That

#183
> Open one and the others close automatically.

I'm not sure that I've ever wanted this!! In fact, whenever I encounter something like a FAQ section where every single heading is its own collapsible, I typically expand all from the bottom up so that I can read everything without having to scroll-click-scroll-click etc. Whenever I encounter this behavior it's disgusting and user-hostile and I hate it.

Re: HTML Can Do That

#184

The older I get, the less I want to use new browser features that have already been somehow possible with existing ones that typically have been around for literal decades. Adopting them makes a future with multiple browser engines more labor intensive and unlikely as the number of standards targets one is required to support grows and it becomes a game of asking yourself what sites you want your browser to support.…

You started that off by raising an interesting point. Pity you had to ruin it by telling us you're exceptionally thoughtful and profound, and that those who disagree, suck! It's true, the amount of work that would be needed nowadays has made the idea of building a new browser engine almost impossible (I don't know how the Ladybird devs are getting on). It's a reason to encourage people to support Firefox on desktop,…

[deleted]

Re: HTML Can Do That

#185
The main thing I'd like to see HTML (maybe more accurately, without-Javascript) do is AI-bot protection.

Browsing the web with Javascript turned off makes things much more tolerable on my low-RAM computer. Until a year or two, I could access the vast majority of the sites that I cared to. With anti-AI-bot protection becoming prevalent, this has gotten a lot worse lately.

I've read somewhere that recent versions of Anubis support no-JS mode. I haven't seen it in use much yet. I wonder if that's because sites are still using old versions of Anubis, or because it's turned off by default in the new version, and sites haven't bothered to enable it, or some other reason.

One instance I've noticed is codeberg, which seemed to be using some no-JS-compatible bot protection -- I'm not sure if it is/was Anubis -- I don't use codeberg regularly (I haven't needed an account there yet), so I'm not sure about details.

Re: HTML Can Do That

#186

The main thing I'd like to see HTML (maybe more accurately, without-Javascript) do is AI-bot protection. Browsing the web with Javascript turned off makes things much more tolerable on my low-RAM computer. Until a year or two, I could access the vast majority of the sites that I cared to. With anti-AI-bot protection becoming prevalent, this has gotten a lot worse lately. I've read somewhere that recent versions of An…

Rate-limiting was always a server-side feature, and HTML has nothing to do with this.

"AI-bot protection" is the latest boogeyman for driving the Internet towards centralised control, along with age/identity verification and the rest of the DRM "trusted" computing crap. So much manufactured consent. It's sickening to see so many fall for that propaganda, especially those who should know better. Tell everyone who still thinks "AI bots" and not just plain old DDoS'es from those in bed with Big Tech are somehow pummeling their site, that the misdirection and lies are no longer working, and we might see things improve.

Re: HTML Can Do That

#187
Having worked on rich text editors for several years, I've developed a strong sense of the limitations of native HTML capabilities.

Popovers and dialogs are indeed useful; our project's color picker popup has been moved to a popover, which is much cleaner than manually managing z-index and closing it by clicking outside.

However, contenteditable is an exception. While it appears to be a native rich text editing capability of browsers, the implementation varies significantly across different browsers. The same operation will produce completely different HTML in Chrome, Firefox, and Safari. Not to mention mobile browsers with their various unpredictable input behaviors. This is why editors like ProseMirror and Wordgard don't trust contenteditable output; instead, they maintain their own document model and only use contenteditable as an input layer.

While native HTML capabilities are improving, for complex interactive scenarios, such as rich text editing and clipboard parsing, JavaScript is still essential.

Re: HTML Can Do That

#189
And yet websites are going to do it with custom JavaScript anyway, because it's a nice excuse to force you to accept their surveillance^W analytics, which you will be enabling on the way. Oh, and also because shoving their BRAND™ in your face by micromanaging the appearance and behaviour of everything is apparently more important than user experience being predictable and consistent from one website to another.

Re: HTML Can Do That

#190
I'm currently in the process of taking a lot of risk rewriting a large-ish app that I maintain to fully eliminate the use of frontend frameworks (and the larger JS ecosystem in general) and to switch to simple SSR + semantic HTML and CSS.

Using this tiny lib [2: shameless plug] I wrote specifically incorporating the "HTML Can Do That"-style realisations going into the big rewrite.

[1] - https://github.com/knadh/listmonk/issues/3073

[2] - https://oat.ink

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