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It is a sign of the times that Amazon gets to call this fair use

observationalepidemiology.blogspot.com

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Re: It is a sign of the times that Amazon gets to call this fair use

#61

Post by wotamess »

ronsor wrote: post #56
wotamess wrote: post #51

Everyone turning into Metallica. The whole "copyright infringement is theft" meme seems to have stuck. 20 years ago it was all "information wants to be free" and "infringement is not theft; being deprived of speculative profit is not a loss." How the turn tables.

You just discovered that principles are rare. Now let me show you my preferences of convenience. "Information wants to be free as long as I benefit from not paying."

I didn't "just" discover such a generalization at all; well aware entropy erodes state.

I "just" compared prior experience and current experience specifically.

Re: It is a sign of the times that Amazon gets to call this fair use

#63

Post by satvikpendem »

Well, this is what happens when they weren't allowed to use digital only copies, as they now have much more of an ability to get around copyright with physical items. The right thing would've been to allow digital items to also have the first sale doctrine, but we don't, so AI training companies must resort to destroying physical books in the process of scanning. The Cobra Effect strikes again.

Re: It is a sign of the times that Amazon gets to call this fair use

#64

Post by semiquaver »

m4rtink wrote: post #25
Dylan16807 wrote: post #4

Copyright law prefers the destructive method. It's not that they're skirting the law but that the law is set up very badly in the first place.

Wasn't copyright law supposed to support creation and propagation of works of art ? Instead, apparently it is A-OK or even encouraged by the same law to destroy books . That does not make any sense! Really might be high time to scrap it all.

This is confused thinking. Why would copyright law care one way or another about whether or not you destroy a book you own?

On the other hand, absolutely yes we should abolish all IP law.

Re: It is a sign of the times that Amazon gets to call this fair use

#65

Post by rpdillon »

satvikpendem wrote: post #63

Well, this is what happens when they weren't allowed to use digital only copies, as they now have much more of an ability to get around copyright with physical items. The right thing would've been to allow digital items to also have the first sale doctrine, but we don't, so AI training companies must resort to destroying physical books in the process of scanning. The Cobra Effect strikes again.

This is precisely correct. The logic being applied rarely extends to second-order effects.

Re: It is a sign of the times that Amazon gets to call this fair use

#66

Post by ssl-3 »

wotamess wrote: post #51

Everyone turning into Metallica. The whole "copyright infringement is theft" meme seems to have stuck. 20 years ago it was all "information wants to be free" and "infringement is not theft; being deprived of speculative profit is not a loss." How the turn tables.

Lars has seemed to me like such a basket case this entire time.

He's lead Metallica through the "Copy our tapes! Let everyone hear our music!" early days, through the "They're stealing our master recordings!" Napster and Senate hearings era, and come all the way back 'round to "I’m just happy that fucking anybody cares about what we’re doing and shows up to see us play and still stream or buy or steal our records or whatever.” [https://consequence.net/2023/09/metallica-lars-ulrich-stream...]

2 out of 3 ain't bad, I guess.

Re: It is a sign of the times that Amazon gets to call this fair use

#67

Post by tescreal »

I wonder how much of AI is about owning all knowledge, deskilling the masses, reducing access, etc.? The end goal might be actual legit surfdom. Without the means to elevate the people's knowledge (and the companies have already stated they Benevolently Protect Users From Harmful Data™), it quickly becomes a situation where they control all narratives. It took less than a generation for social media to make the spectacular mess of discourse we now have. How long before all knowledge is mediated and moderated?

Who's to say? I'll check back in 10 years :)

Re: It is a sign of the times that Amazon gets to call this fair use

#68

Post by rpdillon »

Ekaros wrote: post #49
Dylan16807 wrote: post #4

Copyright law prefers the destructive method. It's not that they're skirting the law but that the law is set up very badly in the first place.

Issue really is first sale doctrine. Meaning that after first sale there is very much leeway for the product owner. Even to scan and destroy it. Copyright ways. Form change probably should be compensated. Even if it means that you wouldn't be able to format change your own media. Or that such activities wouldn't be allowed without compensation over certain threshold.

This is in tension with Sony vs. Betamax, which held that time shifting is fair use, but that also requires format-shifting (broadcast to recorded media).

Re: It is a sign of the times that Amazon gets to call this fair use

#69

Post by rpdillon »

semiquaver wrote: post #64
m4rtink wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't copyright law supposed to support creation and propagation of works of art ? Instead, apparently it is A-OK or even encouraged by the same law to destroy books . That does not make any sense! Really might be high time to scrap it all.

This is confused thinking. Why would copyright law care one way or another about whether or not you destroy a book you own? On the other hand, absolutely yes we should abolish all IP law.

The ruling in the Anthropic case was that their scanning of the books was only fair use because the original physical copy was destroyed. The copyright lobby wanted scarcity so they could monetize things, and now folks are worried about knowledge being scarce. It's a problem of our own making.

Re: It is a sign of the times that Amazon gets to call this fair use

#70

Post by ssl-3 »

m4rtink wrote: post #25
Dylan16807 wrote: post #4

Copyright law prefers the destructive method. It's not that they're skirting the law but that the law is set up very badly in the first place.

Wasn't copyright law supposed to support creation and propagation of works of art ? Instead, apparently it is A-OK or even encouraged by the same law to destroy books . That does not make any sense! Really might be high time to scrap it all.

I support your right to do whatever the hell you want with the books that you own.

Build a lending library, or build a bonfire, or do anything else with them that you choose.

They're your books. Have at it.

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