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Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

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Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#161

Post by xyzelement »

bittercynic wrote: post #148
xyzelement wrote: post #139

I think being smart universally trumps being less smart - but the definition of smart needs to be more encompassing. For example take the stereotype of a brilliant man or woman who neglected family for career, and are forever single and childless forever -- while someone less brilliant just "ends up" with a family and ultimately more fulfilled in life. Superficially this is an example of an average person being happi…

As a single and childless person, I don't like the implication that those are marks of a less fulfilling life. I know some people married with kids who seem very happy and fulfilled, and some profoundly miserable and trapped. I may be missing out on some good things, but I'm also avoiding some extreme misery, and generally do feel content and fulfilled.

Thanks for sharing that. Obviously respect your choices on the individual level.

The contrast you provided between those who are happy with family and those two seem miserable is in line with what I am saying: it's both 'be smart about what you persue' and 'be smart about how you persue it.' So likely the first group was 'smarter' about who they chose as a spouse and how they set up the life with them than the second group.

So maybe we can score the miserable group as a -1, the happy group as a +1 and your avoidance strategy as in-between: 0.

So you can look at your strategy as good because it avoids the extreme misery but it also denies a shot at extreme happiness. And then if one were to go that potentially high risk/high reward path, their actual outcome (are they happy or miserable) is a function of how smartly they persue that endeavor.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#162

Post by IshKebab »

dnlosx wrote: post #63

I will speak from my experience. When I was younger, I considered myself very smart, and I was pretty unhappy. As I grew, I met people much smarter than me; I stopped seeing myself as "the smart" one, and now I am pretty happy. It's not that I became happier because I became less smart; I became happier when I stopped thinking my value was based on my intelligence, so I stopped trying to be recognized by my intellect…

I think it's pretty frustrating being an outlier in any dimension. Your specific needs are always ignored. Being smart is no different. At least when I was in school they were always like "eh he'll do fine, let's concentrate on the borderline dunces".

When you leave school you can find your level a lot easier - go to a university and get a job where other people are at the same skill level. At least that's what made me happier after leaving school - I didn't have to mix with stupid arseholes.

It wasn't until I had kids and was suddenly thrown into a roughly random selection of 30 people that I remembered just how few of the general population I have anything remotely in common with. School sucks.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#163

Post by annzabelle »

brailsafe wrote: post #158
annzabelle wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's interesting. I'm considering going back to get a second bachelor's in biology or biochemistry (my first is in math) and then going to PA school or medical school. I have to wonder a bit if part of that whole plan is that I want to show myself that I can be a good, hardworking student.

I am now and have in the past been in this sort of position, albeit not with an existing completed degree under my belt, just a simple one-year continuing-ed diploma and years of sporadic career experience. I went back to attempt to complete my CS degree on the basis that I figured I already had learnt most of what I would learn anyway and might as well both prove to myself I can do it, as well as get the credential…

I did take a one off course at a local college a couple years back and was able to do well (had a 95% average all semester) and get all my homework done. It was, however, a subject I found fascinating. On the other hand, my work performance severely suffered that semester and I got my first poor performance review.

Over the years, I've come to the conclusion that stimulant ADHD medication isn't for me. It worked well as a child, but as an adult it's just unpleasant and jittery. I took strattera for a couple years and it seemed to help, but we swapped it for wellbutrin to help with seasonal depression, and it just doesn't have the same efficacy.

In the end I may need to come to the conclusion that I'm not temperamentally cut out for academic success, and my math bachelor's does seem to have been a decent enough entry point to a career in software.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#164

Post by fsckboy »

RickJWagner wrote: post #93
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Warren Buffet is the last word on this. The top of the IQ stratosphere is functionally unusual. Set a room full of 130s on a hard problem. When they get stuck, adding more 130s won't help. Throw a >160 into the room and see what happens. >160s don't necessarily think they have it all figured out. But as long as they're functional - not always easy - their raw ability at certain tasks is qualitatively di…

It’s funny you picked 160. Buffett famously said “You don’t need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beats the guy with a 130 IQ. Rationality is essential” Buffett said it in the book, “Warren Buffett Speaks.” He also said if you do have an IQ of 160, you might as well give away 30 points, they’re not going to help you be a better investor. Maybe he’s wrong, but at this tim…

>It’s funny you picked 160.

no, it's not anything like a coincidence or a quote of Buffet.

People always say "160" as the example number because the Stanford-Binet and Wechsler series IQ tests are among the most commonly used and they have a maximum score of 160.

That alone is not enough, you also need to know the std dev is 15 or 16. Therefore, 160 is 4 sd's above the mean which, regardless of the thing you are measuring, is very difficult to measure without massive numbers of sample points because the population density becomes very sparse.

there are other intelligence tests, some top out at 200, but you have to know the SD for that to be useful.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#165

Post by paulpauper »

rootusrootus wrote: post #138
annzabelle wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got labeled "smart but lazy" at a pretty young age (high test scores, didn't do any homework), and I let that label stick with me for far too long. I took some pride in how I could get the top score in a class without studying, and didn't realize that studying itself was a useful skill. I let this whole mindset drag me down through undergrad (especially once I hit the point where I really ought to have studied), an…

> I got labeled "smart but lazy" at a pretty young age (high test scores, didn't do any homework) Same experience here. I could find just about anything else I wanted to do except homework. Spent all night coding many times. Went to school and aced all the tests, skipped all the homework, did not get good grades as a result. My dad actually arranged a visit with a psychiatrist who did an official IQ test (wooo! I'm a…

This is consistent with the Terman study. The large majority of subjects had productive careers and lives for the follow-up.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#166

Post by ok_dad »

xivzgrev wrote: post #101
dnlosx wrote: post #63

I will speak from my experience. When I was younger, I considered myself very smart, and I was pretty unhappy. As I grew, I met people much smarter than me; I stopped seeing myself as "the smart" one, and now I am pretty happy. It's not that I became happier because I became less smart; I became happier when I stopped thinking my value was based on my intelligence, so I stopped trying to be recognized by my intellect…

how did you make this transition? i still, deep down, identify as being "smart". i don't like being wrong, and it's my go-to ego lick at work, "well bad thing x may have happened, but at least I'm still valued for being smart". it was my label in high school that i've never quite shed. obviously now i have so many more facets - father, husband, leader, writer/reader. Smartness is just raw horsepower, it's what you do…

In what way are you smart? I started to think about the things I was good and bad at, and I realized I'm only good at certain types of problems and work due to practice and study. Try to be confident in your interests and pursuits where you know you have experience or you want to gain experience, but don't be overconfident and begin think you know about things that you barely scratched the surface of. A good start is to never assume you know how to solve a problem that has been unsolved for ages, in general. Often, the people who hang out here don't know that line because they think they're "smart".

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#167

Post by snapplebobapple »

I think saying the reason we are unhappy is because the biggest questions are poorly defined misses that happiness was never the goal for why consciousness is here.It's pretty clear to me that consciousness exists for the biology and not the other way around (I submit as evidence how much suffering your biological portion will let you experience before it dies, it's way more than your consciousness would ever authorize if it were in control). As long as your unhappiness isn't to the point of materially affecting your reproductive success, it's a non issue for your biology so has never been optimized for. Smart people are unhappy because they experience the irrelevance of their happiness more fully than dumber people. The dumbest people are slightly more unhappy because they have a way crappier experience on average and they are not dumb enough on average to not notice this.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#169

Post by farhanhubble »

I'm reading all these accounts of people who were considered "smart but lazy", who were bright but not disciplined or driven to participate in things that gets grades. As a kid I had a near perfect memory and limitless curiosity. I would sit with all the textbooks before the academic year started, flip through them and feel excited. I also loved doing my own experiments, sometimes with near-perilous outcomes too. I was way ahead of the curve and did great academically too until high school.

Over time I lost my golden memory and started finding it hard to remember exact details and even vocabulary as easily as normal people do. The slowness and the academic rut also stifled my natural growth. I forced myself through a bachelor's in computer science. I loved every topic and went diving deep into many of them and I could explain them better than my professors, but I had no desire to pass silly exams and prove myself. I passed with a CGPA 8.4/10 and entered a workforce that followed the same rut. Silly, irrelevant interviews that force you to "prepare" for months for them. I did it early on to get my first job but never indulged in it since.

I have had a fulfilling career so far, working on interesting problems with real outcomes. I switched to data science. I dabbled on both sides of the industry; the research papers obsessed R&D and the whatever-shit-sticks side of software development and found mediocrity and sleaze on both sides. I never climbed the corporate ladder and never got close to getting loaded.

I think for smart people happiness comes from chasing exciting and meaningful goals, but the realities of life keep them chasing other more mediocre things and that takes a toll.

Personally, I have stopped looking to my work for intellectual satisfaction or growth or safety or camaraderie. It's a purely transactional relationship. I work sincerely and I get paid. I give them inputs on what can be improved and what makes more sense, but I don't go overboard and make any efforts beyond my paycheck.

I let my true self run amok in exploring things I do on my own, in applying the scientific and analytical mindset to everything from gardening to sewing to building better learning environments. If some of it brings a windfall someday, I'll be marginally happier.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#170

Post by tikhonj »

annzabelle wrote: post #107
dnlosx wrote: post #63

I will speak from my experience. When I was younger, I considered myself very smart, and I was pretty unhappy. As I grew, I met people much smarter than me; I stopped seeing myself as "the smart" one, and now I am pretty happy. It's not that I became happier because I became less smart; I became happier when I stopped thinking my value was based on my intelligence, so I stopped trying to be recognized by my intellect…

I got labeled "smart but lazy" at a pretty young age (high test scores, didn't do any homework), and I let that label stick with me for far too long. I took some pride in how I could get the top score in a class without studying, and didn't realize that studying itself was a useful skill. I let this whole mindset drag me down through undergrad (especially once I hit the point where I really ought to have studied), an…

I was in the same position in high school and college and then—over a decade later!—I got diagnosed with ADHD and everything made a lot more sense. Just having the diagnosis on its own made me happier because it let me understand what was happening, get some coping strategies and feel less guilty about it. (And, later on, getting treated helped even more.)
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