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Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does it without consequence

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Re: Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does it without consequence

#201

Post by charcircuit »

jmward01 wrote: post #80
giantg2 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Maybe the real issue is selective outrage about legal injustice." The real issue is selective enforcement of the law. If it applied equally to everyone, then more people would be outraged as it affected them.

Perfectly equal enforcement really isn't possible, but it should be the policy to enforce in proportion to active harm. The bigger the ongoing active harm, the quicker to react we should be. Some individual torrents a single movie? NBD. No matter the side of the argument you are on this should be ignored. A company intentionally throws content strikes causing legitimate harm to large numbers of content creators? That…

Perfect may not be possible but with AI society will be able to scale law enforcement to way more than what a few individual officers can handle.

Re: Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does it without consequence

#202

Post by charcircuit »

GolfPopper wrote: post #121
jmward01 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perfectly equal enforcement really isn't possible, but it should be the policy to enforce in proportion to active harm. The bigger the ongoing active harm, the quicker to react we should be. Some individual torrents a single movie? NBD. No matter the side of the argument you are on this should be ignored. A company intentionally throws content strikes causing legitimate harm to large numbers of content creators? That…

Finland links speeding fines to income. I'd like to see something that get far broader application. That prevents the wealthy or huge corporations from seeing lawbreaking as a business cost, without destroying a small business or individual who commits the same crime.

In the US speeding can lead to your license being removed and then you can't drive at all. Speeding is not just a fine.

Re: Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does it without consequence

#203

Post by genghisjahn »

carbocation wrote: post #132
edoceo wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe from here: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/12517091-conservatism-consi...

It originated in a comment on a blog: https://crookedtimber.org/2018/03/21/liberals-against-progre...

That was it.

Re: Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does it without consequence

#204

Post by calvinmorrison »

noncoml wrote: post #69
milkytron wrote: post #3

The part that still bothers me so much about the US vs Swartz case is that JSTOR didn't pursue civil litigation against Aaron. It was the US government that pursued him. There was little for the government to lose in the case. In a case vs Meta, at the scale it has reached, it could have wide ranging economic implications limiting the investment in AI, which the US is absolutely not willing to pursue at this point in…

I think the root problem is Corporations being Legal Persons. An alternative would be the CEO to be the “legal person” of each Corp. and be the one against all legal actions should be targeted. In that case it would Zack himself the one facing any legal action. A Corp’s actions result to the death of a person. CEO should be trialed as if they were the one driving the car.

The issue is limited liability. I don't think companies should shield stockholder, shareholders, or owners from any liability

Re: Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does it without consequence

#205

Post by arionhardison »

unpop wrote: post #183
giantg2 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Maybe the real issue is selective outrage about legal injustice." The real issue is selective enforcement of the law. If it applied equally to everyone, then more people would be outraged as it affected them.

[flagged]

The point here is that as you stated: "you still do not understand". For those of us that have been under the thumb of the judicial system it can feel like the world is on you. We have no idea of his mental state, we have no idea of the nuance or motivation but what I do think we know is that the actions of the state here far exceeded any interpretation of what would be deemed an appropriate punishment for the said "crime" committed. What we do understand is that if he hand not been attacked by an over-zealous prosecutor there is a far greater probability he would have been able to handle the situation in a logical manner and maybe even still be here today to defend himself.

We are not asserting that any specific outcome is empirically superior to another just that given the facts of the case, it was not adjudicated fairy given what we know of similar cases.

Re: Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does it without consequence

#206

Post by unpop »

zymhan wrote: post #191
unpop wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

>How would it help the world for Aaron Swartz to download 3.5 million research and primary source PDFs Knowledge is power.

So, pay for access, or go to your local library, or browse the internet, or get free access in a similar way that Aaron Swartz did? Knowledge often requires funding to be created in the first place.

Re: Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does it without consequence

#207

Post by [deleted] »

Melatonic wrote: post #162
badlibrarian wrote: post #133

I don't like talking about this, but first hand knowledge is rarer by the day, and there are entire organizations profiting off this mythology. It's pissing me off. Aaron is not a data point to build stupid metaphors around. He was a bright and broken child. Aaron attracted influential and creepy people and was ill-equipped to handle it. He was also working through a period of sexual awakening while being used by old…

Can you give any more details ? I've never heard about this but sad if true

[deleted]

Re: Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does it without consequence

#208

Post by thousand_nights »

badlibrarian wrote: post #133

I don't like talking about this, but first hand knowledge is rarer by the day, and there are entire organizations profiting off this mythology. It's pissing me off. Aaron is not a data point to build stupid metaphors around. He was a bright and broken child. Aaron attracted influential and creepy people and was ill-equipped to handle it. He was also working through a period of sexual awakening while being used by old…

> He was a bright and broken child

i wasn't there and i didn't know him, but talking about a 26 year old man like this makes it seem like you're just taking away his autonomy

Re: Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does it without consequence

#209

Post by _carbyau_ »

9x39 wrote: post #106
Quarrelsome wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the sentences that US courts dream up around digital offences are absolutely obscene and seem to only exist as a means of coercion. However because they're still technically real and it feels disgusting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz#United_States_v._... The prosecution offered 6 months in low security in a plea deal. He had been mass downloading and evading them at MIT for months until he had MIT and FBI involved and was finally caught on camera. I bring this up because A. maximum exposure to charges are rarely applied but makes great headlines for outrage and B. the plea deal seems reasonable to someon…

I don't think the issue is the time in prison.

I think it is the criminal record. Other places in the world, once you've served your time you can often go right back to living. Not that it is easy but it doesn't hang over you.

In the US, once you have a criminal record - any criminal record - there are flow on effects that keep fucking with you for life.

Re: Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does it without consequence

#210

Post by jmward01 »

charcircuit wrote: post #202
GolfPopper wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finland links speeding fines to income. I'd like to see something that get far broader application. That prevents the wealthy or huge corporations from seeing lawbreaking as a business cost, without destroying a small business or individual who commits the same crime.

In the US speeding can lead to your license being removed and then you can't drive at all. Speeding is not just a fine.

Again, this is a wealth tax. Rich get driven around and don't loose their jobs for loosing their license. Try being poor though and having this happen.

Edit: should have said 'poor tax'

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