no AI can not become consious.AI is an inert guessing engine of fantastic proportions and craft, but still a dead thing.some humans and other animals ocasionaly do, become conscious, and by consious I mean aware of what I am doing AND aware of what you are doing, and which parts are autonomic behaviors and which parts are considered, actions, or measured reactions, or not.
I will tell you what I know if I feal like it, and am prepared to be chearfully wrong or state that I am way out on a speculative limb, but am maintaining my basic principals, non the less, as THAT, is one of the limitations of consiousness, in that it is IMPOSSIBLE to be consious of everything, so you have to choose, and by choosing, you become what you are, or not.
And as always, evolution is way ahead of the game, having spent the afternoon toying with several hundred trillion iterations of life, it is spending the afternoon, elsewhere, doing the same.
Could AIs Become Conscious?
61–70 of 111 posts
Re: Could AIs Become Conscious?
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why does this bother you? Is it an internal sense of ego that seems to be ingrained in our complex set of bits? Really this is why it took humanity 100,000 years to reach the space age. We cannot look at things emotionally and irrationally and expect to receive rational answers. Consciousness emerges and we can see a gradient of it across different bags of meat. There are also some studies that show signs that plants…
I doubt it bothers me in the sense you have in mind. What bothers me is the desire to actually understand it and always see all the smart people stuck on a non-starter. And it’s the first idea most smart people have about what consciousness must be. I also thought this when I was a teenager and after reflecting on it for many years decided it does not work. I believe animals have consciousness and probably plants may…
Now you've put yourself into a trap. "Consciousness is emergent" but also "Consciousness is not emergent". Only one of these statements can be true. Life is that sand pile. We were a pile of chemicals that got hit by lightning or whatever billions of years ago, and from those uncountable chemical and electrical reactions nature evolved a programming machine that reliably produces conscious entities from non-conscious materials. Again, 4 billion year old sand pile.
Personally I reject the hard problem of consciousness. People keep having to try to invent magic, god, or unfound sciences for an issue that is simply complex but right in front of us.
Re: Could AIs Become Conscious?
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Why not just say, "Human consciousness is ontologically axiomatic," and leave it at that? I have no need of that hypothesis.
Do you not think humans are conscious?
I think consciousness is a redundant magical word for a bag of things that most mammals do to varying degree.
Re: Could AIs Become Conscious?
#64Re: Could AIs Become Conscious?
#65Re: Could AIs Become Conscious?
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you prove you are not merely mimicking consciousness? At some point mimicking a thing becomes the thing.
Consciousness isn't behavioral, which is why we can't prove anyone other than ourselves is conscious. Mimicking isn't going to work. But if you want a more scientific reason, LLMs don't have bodies, thus no sensations. What woult it mean for an LLM to feel hungry or cold?
>> What woul[d] it mean for an LLM to feel hungry or cold?
What would it mean for a human to feel the passing through our bodies of 100 trillion neutrinos every second?
My point is that there are things we cannot "feel" either. Why should consciousness depend on certain feelings and not others?
Re: Could AIs Become Conscious?
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
Consciousness isn't behavioral, which is why we can't prove anyone other than ourselves is conscious. Mimicking isn't going to work. But if you want a more scientific reason, LLMs don't have bodies, thus no sensations. What woult it mean for an LLM to feel hungry or cold?
>> What woul[d] it mean for an LLM to feel hungry or cold? What would it mean for a human to feel the passing through our bodies of 100 trillion neutrinos every second? My point is that there are things we cannot "feel" either. Why should consciousness depend on certain feelings and not others?
Because we don't have a sensory organ for neutrinos. LLMs have no sensory organs, they just emit tokens.
Re: Could AIs Become Conscious?
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you not think humans are conscious?
I think consciousness is a redundant magical word for a bag of things that most mammals do to varying degree.
What's magical about subjective experience? We all have them, they're the basis for having any empirical descriptions of the world.
Re: Could AIs Become Conscious?
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
Consciousness isn't behavioral, which is why we can't prove anyone other than ourselves is conscious. Mimicking isn't going to work. But if you want a more scientific reason, LLMs don't have bodies, thus no sensations. What woult it mean for an LLM to feel hungry or cold?
The body is the mind's interface with the world. Why couldn't a digital mind "feel sensations", subjective as they are, on its own interface with it? If it's assumed to not be a subject, then how could it be a mind at all?
I didn't say AIs couldn't be conscious, only that mimicking behavior (or speech) is not a way to become conscious.
Re: Could AIs Become Conscious?
#70No but they can mimic some aspects of consciousness.
Can you prove you are not merely mimicking consciousness? At some point mimicking a thing becomes the thing.
I've thought about turning this upside down. To any person who is sure they know what has and doesn't have consciousness: If I say I don't have it, can you prove me wrong?
As far as I'm concerned, it's a word without a useful enough definition to bother worrying about it.