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Google has stopped pushing Git tags for some Android source code

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Re: Google has stopped pushing Git tags for some Android source code

#311

Post by fsflover »

palata wrote: post #310
fsflover wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the battery life is worse. I have a spare battery with me. > And would you say you have access to all the hardware features supported by Android? No. GNU/Linux phones require compromises. Fighting for your rights does as well.

I feel like supporting Android alternatives is also fighting for my rights. Isn't it? And again, I'm really impressed by all the work done by the Linux on Mobile projects. I'm just saying it's an uphill battle, and it's nowhere close to any AOSP-based system.

Yes, we are in full agreement here.

Re: Google has stopped pushing Git tags for some Android source code

#312

Post by wakawaka28 »

Dead_Lemon wrote: post #240
wakawaka28 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to be that guy but publishing source online for free theoretically involves unbounded distribution costs that can't be recovered. That isn't the issue here but it should be considered before changing a license.

Let not forget that google heavily relies on opensource software. The Linux kernel being the obvious one in this discussion, which they make extensive use of.

So? The license is for everyone, not just Google.

Re: Google has stopped pushing Git tags for some Android source code

#313

Post by wakawaka28 »

notpushkin wrote: post #245
wakawaka28 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to be that guy but publishing source online for free theoretically involves unbounded distribution costs that can't be recovered. That isn't the issue here but it should be considered before changing a license.

Google has servers inside ISP networks that distribute YouTube videos. They pay nothing for the distribution costs, I think they don’t even pay for electricity/cooling. If they wanted to distribute Android source code, they wouldn’t have to pay a dime.

Regardless of whether these costs are zero (I doubt they actually are), these licenses apply to EVERYONE who uses them, not just very wealthy companies. It would not be right to essentially require unbounded free hosting or use of specific online tools/platforms, just to be able to comply with the license.

Re: Google has stopped pushing Git tags for some Android source code

#314

Post by wakawaka28 »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #212
wakawaka28 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to be that guy but publishing source online for free theoretically involves unbounded distribution costs that can't be recovered. That isn't the issue here but it should be considered before changing a license.

Google is worth what, a trillion dollars?

It's a generic license that doesn't say "by the way, if you've got a market cap above X then you have to host and distribute the code FOR FREE"... Putting such garbage in there would hurt small developers who made popular, nonprofit projects and probably anyone who isn't flush with cash. Imagine being legally obligated to host files in the middle of a DDoS attack, and pay the resulting AWS bill or whatever.

Re: Google has stopped pushing Git tags for some Android source code

#315

Post by TheCoelacanth »

grapheneos wrote: post #114

They stopped pushing tags for any of the Pixel kernel or userspace driver repositories to AOSP. They also stopped pushing AOSP releases specific to Pixels which is why AOSP now only gets yearly releases, QPR2 releases and security backports to both of those. Other OEMs use the yearly and theoretically also the QPR2 releases. Both the yearly and QPR2 releases get monthly security backports. Since they dropped Pixel su…

Arguably, they aren't even distributing the source code at all anymore. The GPL defines "source code" as "the preferred form of the work for making modifications to it".

I would be willing to bet any amount of money that no Google developer makes modifications using a tarball that's missing commit history. The preferred form for making modifications is a source control repository.

Re: Google has stopped pushing Git tags for some Android source code

#316

Post by grapheneos »

ajross wrote: post #290
grapheneos wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We said artificially delaying it for weeks or more is how they're violating it, not using Google Drive. It's also not provided in the preferred form for modification. It isn't in the form expected by the build system and causes it to not function in the way it did for their own builds.

Well to be fair you didn't say that in the linked tweet. Delay is bad too, but again the original spirit of the license was absolutely OK with the idea of weeks-long delays. Our modern world of instant github access has spoiled us, but courts are not going to see damages from just "we had to ship a month late" unless you can show something more specific.

It's required for providing timely security patches. It's not hard to show why that's important and Google engineers have written plenty about it for us to cite. We've managed to avoid delays for security patches so far through reverse engineering and other workarounds. Having to invest time from developers paid to work on GrapheneOS in reverse engineering compiled GPLv2 code shows Google is violating the GPLv2.

Re: Google has stopped pushing Git tags for some Android source code

#317

Post by TheCoelacanth »

globular-toast wrote: post #244
pas wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what does the license say? provide source when asked or publish source? OSI is not clear on this either. ("Where some form of a product is not distributed with source code, there must be a well-publicized means of obtaining the source code for no more than a reasonable reproduction cost, [...]")

Alas, the licences have become outdated and we haven't kept up, because most have played by the spirit of the rules up to this point. There is an expectation that source code will be readily available using modern tooling, like a version control system, but that's not what the licences actually require.

GPL requires that source code be in the preferred form for making modifications. If you use source control for your own modifications, then that's obviously the preferred form and you must distribute the source in that form.

Re: Google has stopped pushing Git tags for some Android source code

#318

Post by TheCoelacanth »

GuB-42 wrote: post #134
bitpush wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google refusing to do so means Google wants to violate the GPLv2 Not an expert in GPL, but does it say that the source code needs to be provided by a url?

No, and it doesn't even have to be provided for free as long as the price is reasonable with regard to the delivery costs. The GPL was made when mailing disks was a common way of delivering software and it is still a valid way to do it. But the most important part is that once you have that source code, no one can stop you from redistributing it in a cheaper and more convenient way. It means that in theory, only a si…

The GPL requires use of a medium customarily used for software interchange; not a medium that used to be customarily used for software interchange.

It's not customary to mail software on disks anymore so it doesn't fulfill the GPL anymore.

Re: Google has stopped pushing Git tags for some Android source code

#319

Post by cosmic_cheese »

palata wrote: post #309
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One obstacle to making AOSP independent is the included apps. Last I knew they were overly basic and somewhat derelict because Google has long been favoring their own closed source counterparts, and third party manufacturers all ship their own (often kinda garbage) alternatives. Not insurmountable at all, building decent apps isn’t rocket science, but a substantial investment of time and energy nonetheless.

Which apps? You can install the Google apps on GrapheneOS, can't you?

You can, but if full independence from Google is the goal then you're really better off if the stock apps are nice to use.

Re: Google has stopped pushing Git tags for some Android source code

#320

Post by jkaplowitz »

MrDrMcCoy wrote: post #302
thyristan wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fairphones are easy to unlock, repairable, have a long lifetime and offer a variety of different operating system distributions.

I would love to have a Fairphone, but sadly I live in the USA.

They just launched it in the USA a couple of days ago! Link to HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49344811
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