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Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does it without consequence

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Re: Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does it without consequence

#111

Post by 9x39 »

voakbasda wrote: post #77
sillysaurusx wrote: post #60

He wasn’t prosecuted for scraping. He trespassed into a room with a router, plugged his laptop into it, downloaded papers as quickly as possible, and then rotated his MAC address to dodge the bans that the admin was trying to place on him. That’s very different from downloading a webpage on the open internet. I’m not saying he should or shouldn’t have been prosecuted, but there’s some kind of rose tinted glasses filt…

Wasn’t Meta found to be scraping from addresses that were not immediately traceable back to them?

Maybe, but the prosecution that most people would say lead to his decision to end his life was from abuse of the MIT network over months until they had him on video.

The rate of JSTOR content retrieved from MIT was a separate contract issue.

Re: Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does it without consequence

#112

Post by anthonyrstevens »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #109
giantg2 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Maybe the real issue is selective outrage about legal injustice." The real issue is selective enforcement of the law. If it applied equally to everyone, then more people would be outraged as it affected them.

> If it applied equally to everyone, then more people would be outraged as it affected them. In order to do this you need to have laws that are designed to be reasonable for people to actually follow instead of laws that are designed to allow prosecutors to find a violation whenever they want to. Actually enforcing them would create pressure to do that, but it would also create pressure to go back to selective enforc…

>> A better solution might be to make a showing of selective enforcement a means to strike down a law. If you can show that someone else was doing the same thing without being charged then the prosecution either has to charge them too or that law is repealed and no one can be charged with it anymore.

This is very interesting. I suspect there are a lot of unintended consequences that might follow.

Re: Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does it without consequence

#113

Post by s1artibartfast »

mmorriso wrote: post #110
arionhardison wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the real issue is selective outrage about legal injustice. I totally agree that this was wrong and he should not have been prosecuted but a large part of the effort that dealt this injustice to him was facilitated by the fact that the vast majority of people willfully turn a blind eye when the same thing or worse happens to people are not of their ilk. If we were to finally stand up and say that justice for all…

The real issue is that in the US, everything is for sale.

Humans have incentives everywhere. Its not quite the same.

I dont think anyone bought the judge or prosecutor for Aaron

Re: Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does it without consequence

#114

Post by msftgreed »

doctorwho42 wrote: post #53
buran77 wrote: post #14

The US has normalized so much moral rot and legal breaches in the past few years, all in the interest of making more money... Rarely does a country degrade so much, so fast, and I'm afraid this isn't even the low mark.

It hasn't degraded in such a short time, this rot has been there for 30 odd years. Infrasture, systemic corruption to an unprecedented level (it's always there, but the scale is different), etc. What happened 'so fast' was how fast they pulled off the mask. 10 years and it's practically off in its entirety...

As someone who was around during Reagan, you are correct. The turn happened in the 80s, and then rapidly accelerated in the 90s and 2000s, then rapidly accelerated again in the past 10 years.

I think a lot of folks are stuck on the idea that it's been a singular bad actor -- a Trump, or a McConnell or something. This "Great Man Theory" is almost certainly a very naive read of the systems that are leading to this moment.

Re: Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does it without consequence

#116

Post by Quarrelsome »

9x39 wrote: post #106
Quarrelsome wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the sentences that US courts dream up around digital offences are absolutely obscene and seem to only exist as a means of coercion. However because they're still technically real and it feels disgusting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz#United_States_v._... The prosecution offered 6 months in low security in a plea deal. He had been mass downloading and evading them at MIT for months until he had MIT and FBI involved and was finally caught on camera. I bring this up because A. maximum exposure to charges are rarely applied but makes great headlines for outrage and B. the plea deal seems reasonable to someon…

> maximum exposure to charges are rarely applied

and if you pay up to the mafia then they generally don't kill your relatives, but they still threaten to kill your relatives. I feel like they're only on the book as a means of intimidation. It doesn't feel like a healthy justice system, especially given its a non-violent crime in this case.

If he was performing digital crimes to pay for human trafficking then I'd get it, but that's far from the case.

Re: Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does it without consequence

#117

Post by LostMyLogin »

9x39 wrote: post #89
627467 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> repeatedly broke in to a room > rotated his MAC address Do you really think these details drastically change how people should judge his actions vs those of a corporation?

Yeah, intent matters. Evading security matters. It's a big point that his actions were intentional and not passive or accidental - not that IP infringement by corporations isn't its own discussion.

How is Meta using BitTorrent to download over 80 terabytes of copyrighted books while avoiding using corporate IP addresses not evading security?

Re: Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does it without consequence

#118

Post by AnthonyMouse »

anthonyrstevens wrote: post #112
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it applied equally to everyone, then more people would be outraged as it affected them. In order to do this you need to have laws that are designed to be reasonable for people to actually follow instead of laws that are designed to allow prosecutors to find a violation whenever they want to. Actually enforcing them would create pressure to do that, but it would also create pressure to go back to selective enforc…

>> A better solution might be to make a showing of selective enforcement a means to strike down a law. If you can show that someone else was doing the same thing without being charged then the prosecution either has to charge them too or that law is repealed and no one can be charged with it anymore. This is very interesting. I suspect there are a lot of unintended consequences that might follow.

If you're going to say things like that you have to give examples.

Re: Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does it without consequence

#119

Post by 63stack »

9x39 wrote: post #89
627467 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> repeatedly broke in to a room > rotated his MAC address Do you really think these details drastically change how people should judge his actions vs those of a corporation?

Yeah, intent matters. Evading security matters. It's a big point that his actions were intentional and not passive or accidental - not that IP infringement by corporations isn't its own discussion.

Sure intent matters but I still don't see how this warrants the government going after him.

Re: Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does it without consequence

#120

Post by [deleted] »

ComplexSystems wrote: post #90
sillysaurusx wrote: post #60

He wasn’t prosecuted for scraping. He trespassed into a room with a router, plugged his laptop into it, downloaded papers as quickly as possible, and then rotated his MAC address to dodge the bans that the admin was trying to place on him. That’s very different from downloading a webpage on the open internet. I’m not saying he should or shouldn’t have been prosecuted, but there’s some kind of rose tinted glasses filt…

So what crime was he guilty of that Meta isn't? "Scraping too unsophisticatedly?"

[deleted]
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