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I like 'em thick: an apology to my English teachers

experimental-history.com

191–200 of 360 posts

Re: I like 'em thick: an apology to my English teachers

#191
A Chinese example of this for me is Jin Yong, probably the most influential wuxia (Chinese martial-arts fiction) novelist in the Chinese-speaking world. His books are popular fiction in the most literal sense: enormously entertaining, widely read, and for many people first encountered simply as page turners.

As a kid, that was how I read them too.

Only after I started working did I realize how perceptive some of the character writing was. Murong Fu, for example, is genuinely capable, but his ambition is even greater. Everyone around him, friends, followers, even people who love him, is ultimately someone he is willing to sacrifice for his goal. I have met people who seem to reproduce almost the whole arc: the ambition, the triumphs, the disappointments, the pain, the struggle, and sometimes even the madness. Suddenly Murong Fu no longer feels like an exaggerated fictional character.

The book never changes. I had finally acquired the experience to see what was already there. That feels like thickness to me.

Re: I like 'em thick: an apology to my English teachers

#192
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no correct way to read Shakespeare. There are many wrong ways, but don't let your friend's interpretation cloud you from the others. It is really magic when you see some other interpretation and understand both are right despite not being compatible.

Oh, I hate this sentiment so very much. Example: The song "We Are Young" by fun features the following lyrics. My seat's been taken by some sunglasses / asking 'bout a scar, and / I know I gave it to you months ago / I know you're trying to forget / But between the drinks and subtle things / The holes in my apologies, you know / I'm trying hard to take it back The aspiring song analyst might think it's about the sing…

> Projecting deeper meaning where there is none is simply not valid.

Nah, that is the most fun part.

Re: I like 'em thick: an apology to my English teachers

#193
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s certainly true that an adult would tend to have more additional knowledge and be better able to understand a lot of writing, but if you avoid exposing kids to anything they don’t have total understanding of the context of, you won’t really be able to teach them anything. Discussing books can help provide some of that context they’re missing. It’s probably fine to teach arithmetic before algebraic number theory t…

I'm honestly of the opinion that teaching children arithmetic (as in, having them perform arithmetic algorithms) is not just a complete waste of time, but actually detrimental as it sours them to the idea of anything labeled "mathematics".

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Re: I like 'em thick: an apology to my English teachers

#194
> I was presented with art and literature as if it was self-explanatory, and that everything wonderful about it was plainly visible from the outside. But those works were much more like dark, winding caves with treasure stashed inside of them. My teachers were like, “Right, well, into the cave you go!” and I was like “But there’s nothing in there” and they were like “Entering the cave is 30% of your grade” and so I took a few steps into the darkness and I was like “Just as I suspected: an empty cave” and then I came trudging back out and pretended that I saw something.

Doesn't particularly sound like their English teachers are owed an apology.

Re: I like 'em thick: an apology to my English teachers

#195
post #46

I have to say, this guy should teach English to high-schoolers.

I genuinely think that the vast majority of English teachers have had experiences like this. It's what made them become English teachers. Then, with all the best intent in the world, they try to explain to their students "Look, you don't get this, this fat book is transcendent if you can just sit with it and understand it! I, too, used to think that English class was just stupid words that they force you to read, but…

    - “Blah blah blah blah skeleton, blah blah blah blah mitochondria! Make sense?”
    - “No!”

Re: I like 'em thick: an apology to my English teachers

#196
post #99

As an old man I now think the art and humanities classes in school landed at the wrong time. You need context to really understand a book or a work of art. You want to know what kind of environment produced it, what it's talking to. But when you're in school, there isn't time for that. You aren't going to know a bunch of things about history to put things into context, because there simply isn't enough time for it. S…

I've always thought about that with history - it should be taught to people with enough life experience to realize the subtleties. On the other hand, art class can teach personal creation to young folks, before it gets optimized away as you grow older in favor of consumption.

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Re: I like 'em thick: an apology to my English teachers

#197
post #95

Although I appreciate the article, what's the deal with calling depth thickness? Is it because it looks like the meme word 'thicc'? > If you allow for the existence of secret treasures that can only be accessed with effort and analysis, then you empower the elitists and the snobs. “Buddy, don’t even talk to me until you’ve been in the cave!” I don't agree with this statement. Being a snob and/or elitist means looking…

"Thick" already has a meaning of "dimwitted" so it's a particularly strange choice of word in this context. Is this something this new use of "thick" as a synonym for "deep" something this author is trying to coin, or is this already an established meaning among younger generations?

As thick as the paint on the Lexus LS400. ;)

Re: I like 'em thick: an apology to my English teachers

#198

As an old man I now think the art and humanities classes in school landed at the wrong time. You need context to really understand a book or a work of art. You want to know what kind of environment produced it, what it's talking to. But when you're in school, there isn't time for that. You aren't going to know a bunch of things about history to put things into context, because there simply isn't enough time for it. S…

School in general is terrible at teaching the "everything is connected to everything else" of history.

[deleted]

Re: I like 'em thick: an apology to my English teachers

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the book tells you? To my shame I've never read Dickens, but I did read the Romanian canonical authors (I am Romanian), and a lot of them, the ones I liked, gave you a very real sense of the life of the people at the time. Ion, for example, is basically a tragedy about the titular character scheming to marry a woman whom he doesn't love (but who loves him) because he's poor and she's "rich" (owns land). And t…

> "To my shame I've never read Dickens" I suggest dropping the shame; you're not missing much. IMHO Dickens is hugely overrated. Paid by the word and it shows.

Go for "Great Expectations", "David Copperfield" and "Bleak House". If they are not great novels, I don't know what are.

Re: I like 'em thick: an apology to my English teachers

#200
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It felt even worse when reading Shakespeare, which is nominally the same language you and I speak, but just barely. Add the fact that it's a play, where the performance carries a lot of the meaning. The end result was that I - and as far as I could tell, 99% of my classmates - got basically negative value out of sitting in class and reading lines we didn't understand out loud, without even time to try and parse it ou…

Rant: I missed lot of Shakespeare appreciation when they somehow failed to teach that (other) people actually like how iambic pentameter sounds, and this is critical to enjoying it. Nothing about how Shakespeare is voiced has ever registered as sounding particularly pleasant to me. The word choice, sure, but not the meter or stressing. They taught that Shakespeare used iambic pentameter, and how you're "supposed" to…

Meter is a very basic part of English poetry that is usually taught. Almost all popular music and poetry has meter.
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