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Stop Anthropomorphizing Intermediate Tokens as Reasoning/Thinking Traces (2025)

arxiv.org

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Re: Stop Anthropomorphizing Intermediate Tokens as Reasoning/Thinking Traces (2025)

#41
post #24

Pretty wild dressing a blog post up as a scientific paper.

It's called a position paper, and it summarizes previous empirical research from the same group.

But just so I don't waste your time with human thought, I asked Claude if it would call this a scientific paper, and it said yes.

Re: Stop Anthropomorphizing Intermediate Tokens as Reasoning/Thinking Traces (2025)

#42

Strong dislike for papers that tell me what to do in the title, especially when even the paper admits a loose correlation of the intermediate tokens compared to solution correctness. My solutions work and they speak for themselves.

I hate articles that do this as well in the title. It's basically just a form of clickbait.

Re: Stop Anthropomorphizing Intermediate Tokens as Reasoning/Thinking Traces (2025)

#43
post #28

Is anthropomorphizing a real problem? From what I know, none of the serious LLM researchers believe it has anything to do with human reasoning, apart from Anthropic with their click-baity terminology like "LLM biology". It's just a metaphor. "Reasoning tokens" is simpler to say than "learned prompt augmentation tokens". I used to (and still do) anthropomorphize things long before LLMs, and I've seen my colleagues do…

> Is anthropomorphizing a real problem

Yes. There's a difference between scrapping a session and starting over, or going back and branching something, or using sub-agents to see five outcomes, vs arguing with a system in a long drawn out chat.

Like - I know that if a model starts doing something silly, instead of correcting it - I can probably go back and edit two steps prior to add an extra guardrail, or extra data, or whatever.

Re: Stop Anthropomorphizing Intermediate Tokens as Reasoning/Thinking Traces (2025)

#44
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume theyre searching the local gradient to see if theres a better descent before proceeding.

I don't think there's anything like that going on. They just word vomit into a secondary area, and then there is an internal prompt that says "clean this up and summarize for the user".

Less "internal prompt" and more "they are trained to summarize after a token"

Re: Stop Anthropomorphizing Intermediate Tokens as Reasoning/Thinking Traces (2025)

#45
post #28

Is anthropomorphizing a real problem? From what I know, none of the serious LLM researchers believe it has anything to do with human reasoning, apart from Anthropic with their click-baity terminology like "LLM biology". It's just a metaphor. "Reasoning tokens" is simpler to say than "learned prompt augmentation tokens". I used to (and still do) anthropomorphize things long before LLMs, and I've seen my colleagues do…

Because plenty of people, even ones that should know better, really believe it's a conscious, thinking entity, not just some turn of phrase. I have a coworker that spends at least 10 hours a week arguing with his like you would with a conscious person. I've gently tried to explain it's like arguing with your compiler for giving you an incoherent error message - it's pointless. It doesn't understand, it can't understa…

> It doesn't understand, it can't understand, and even if it could, you arguing with it isn't going to make it "learn" or act differently.

I know people who are like that too.

I'm not sure anthropomorphizing is a problem. Seeing analogies everywhere is an innate human trait, sometimes it can be harmful but more often it's useful.

Re: Stop Anthropomorphizing Intermediate Tokens as Reasoning/Thinking Traces (2025)

#46
post #28

Is anthropomorphizing a real problem? From what I know, none of the serious LLM researchers believe it has anything to do with human reasoning, apart from Anthropic with their click-baity terminology like "LLM biology". It's just a metaphor. "Reasoning tokens" is simpler to say than "learned prompt augmentation tokens". I used to (and still do) anthropomorphize things long before LLMs, and I've seen my colleagues do…

Because plenty of people, even ones that should know better, really believe it's a conscious, thinking entity, not just some turn of phrase. I have a coworker that spends at least 10 hours a week arguing with his like you would with a conscious person. I've gently tried to explain it's like arguing with your compiler for giving you an incoherent error message - it's pointless. It doesn't understand, it can't understa…

Do you have a working definition of "conscious"?

Re: Stop Anthropomorphizing Intermediate Tokens as Reasoning/Thinking Traces (2025)

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a position paper. Its purpose is to advocate for a specific viewpoint to the ML community. From [1]: "Position papers make an argument for a viewpoint or perspective about what should be done [...]" [1] https://icml.cc/Conferences/2026/CallForPositionPapers

Sure, and the parent comment's position is that they dislike it. Its purpose is to advocate against clickbait titles becoming normalized in the scientific community.

This is the opposite of clickbait. The topic is obvious from the title.

Re: Stop Anthropomorphizing Intermediate Tokens as Reasoning/Thinking Traces (2025)

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because plenty of people, even ones that should know better, really believe it's a conscious, thinking entity, not just some turn of phrase. I have a coworker that spends at least 10 hours a week arguing with his like you would with a conscious person. I've gently tried to explain it's like arguing with your compiler for giving you an incoherent error message - it's pointless. It doesn't understand, it can't understa…

Do you have a working definition of "conscious"?

Do you? I’m not sure what you’re getting at.

Re: Stop Anthropomorphizing Intermediate Tokens as Reasoning/Thinking Traces (2025)

#49
In other news, Pascal's Wager makes no sense whatsoever if an omniscient all-knowing God exists that will see right through your deception. My own take here is stop treating "reasoning" as a sign of sentience or self awareness when your personal computer can do it now. IMO that has much larger implications w/r to our place in the Universe and what we might meet out there someday* than the question of whether your LLM is alive or not.

*Paging Peter Watts and Vernor Vinge

Re: Stop Anthropomorphizing Intermediate Tokens as Reasoning/Thinking Traces (2025)

#50
post #28

Is anthropomorphizing a real problem? From what I know, none of the serious LLM researchers believe it has anything to do with human reasoning, apart from Anthropic with their click-baity terminology like "LLM biology". It's just a metaphor. "Reasoning tokens" is simpler to say than "learned prompt augmentation tokens". I used to (and still do) anthropomorphize things long before LLMs, and I've seen my colleagues do…

Simplifying terminology is not a problem. The providers intentionally choosing terminology to make people think it's something it's not is a problem. I hate the term agent. Calling them companions as some do is just gross.
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