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AliExpress runs silent WebAudio fingerprinting that breaks Bluetooth multipoint

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Re: AliExpress runs silent WebAudio fingerprinting that breaks Bluetooth multipoint

#211

Post by lenerdenator »

jonathanlb wrote: post #166
mgerdts wrote: post #59

With my previous hearing aid I noticed that visiting a wide variety of web sites would cause a change in the amplification of environmental noise. I always assumed it was doing something with Bluetooth, and probably not for a good reason. This is with an iPhone 13 and one Kirkland/phonak hearing aid. I haven’t noticed this recently, but I also now have two newer Phonak hearing aids and a few iOS updates have happened…

I wear Phonak CI processors. It's not just you. I've also experienced the volume drop on a few sites and apps. The Amazon iOS app does this. Each time I leave the app, ambient audio returns to normal.

It'd be interesting to see what a lawyer specializing in disability law would think of that.

At least in the US, I could see that being something that the ADA prohibits.

Re: AliExpress runs silent WebAudio fingerprinting that breaks Bluetooth multipoint

#212

Post by embedding-shape »

pudgywalsh wrote: post #189
deepsun wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit is fine, just a small popup at the bottom. Facebook kn the other hand turned off most functions on mobile, e.g. chat. Good thing though if you don't use the chat long enough, friends start using other means of communication.

Reddit is NOT FINE. They throw up full page modals now telling you to continue in the app.

Soon we'll realize that the experience of using reddit (and other mainstream social media) differs a lot based on what country you're in, and sometimes even the state.

For example, seemingly a bunch of places in Europe/elsewhere has disabled old.reddit.com unless you're logged in, but seemingly a bunch of people in other places can use it just fine. I'm sure what both of you are seeing is both correct, there is just something changing the experience that gets served to each of you.

Re: AliExpress runs silent WebAudio fingerprinting that breaks Bluetooth multipoint

#214

Post by lenerdenator »

MallocVoidstar wrote: post #114
ivanjermakov wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if they still do, but a couple years ago prices in the app were lower than on the website. And they promoted installing it to save money.

It's still the case that you pay less in the app. You get 'coins' for a daily check-in, which are automatically(?) applied as a discount. Most items either don't actually use them or only give you a pointless 1% off or something, but I've gotten a $12 microcontroller for $5, for example. I think some coupons are app-only, too (though most aliexpress sales are fake and are better thought of as the normal price).

You pay less money in the app.

Companies are not going to hire a mobile dev team to create an app to give you a way to pay them less for a good.

They hire a mobile dev team to create an app to give you a way to hand over data that you otherwise wouldn't, is technically impossible to do through a web browser, and is worth more than the discount that they give you for using the app.

Re: AliExpress runs silent WebAudio fingerprinting that breaks Bluetooth multipoint

#215

Post by flkiwi »

swores wrote: post #92
rigrassm wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not sure if they still do, but a couple years ago prices in app were lower than on the website. And they promoted installing it to save money. Translation: They are able to mine your personal data more completely with an app installed vs the website which they can sell for pure profit. They promoted installing it to extract more value from you.

That's definitely a feasible explanation (and the one I would assume to be true for AliExpress). But there is another, slightly less evil, explanation that I know at least some companies have pushed their apps because of: the thinking is that if you're on their website, there is less friction to open a new tab and search for a lower price from their competitors, than if you're in their app. Obviously it's hardly any…

It's quickly getting to the point for me that "find the thing I want locally and buy online if it's cheaper" is reversing. I've actually been to one of the few remaining electronics retailers to look for a PC for my kid recently, and it was nice not to be assailed by dark patterns (yes, there are dark patterns in b&m retail, but they're much more obvious).

Re: AliExpress runs silent WebAudio fingerprinting that breaks Bluetooth multipoint

#217

Post by [deleted] »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #175
mgerdts wrote: post #59

With my previous hearing aid I noticed that visiting a wide variety of web sites would cause a change in the amplification of environmental noise. I always assumed it was doing something with Bluetooth, and probably not for a good reason. This is with an iPhone 13 and one Kirkland/phonak hearing aid. I haven’t noticed this recently, but I also now have two newer Phonak hearing aids and a few iOS updates have happened…

It seems far more likely that your cheap hearing aids are sensitive to certain RF frequencies and the background javascript is causing different patterns of load on the phone's CPU. I would suspect that this only happens when you're charging and it is likely the charger or cable not being properly shielded.

[deleted]

Re: AliExpress runs silent WebAudio fingerprinting that breaks Bluetooth multipoint

#218

Post by retrac »

mgerdts wrote: post #59

With my previous hearing aid I noticed that visiting a wide variety of web sites would cause a change in the amplification of environmental noise. I always assumed it was doing something with Bluetooth, and probably not for a good reason. This is with an iPhone 13 and one Kirkland/phonak hearing aid. I haven’t noticed this recently, but I also now have two newer Phonak hearing aids and a few iOS updates have happened…

It's the Bluetooth; when Bluetooth connects most hearing aids reduce the environmental volume slightly so you can hear the streaming content. Some app has started to play audio (perhaps silently). I notice it on some websites.

How much HAs reduce environmental sounds when streaming is configurable by the way, but only by the audiologist if you don't have your own programmer. I don't like the effect and prefer to just turn down the volume manually.

Re: AliExpress runs silent WebAudio fingerprinting that breaks Bluetooth multipoint

#219

Post by grishka »

nozzlegear wrote: post #147
grishka wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opening a popup needs JS though.

Not with the new popover API.

This doesn't look like it gives websites something they couldn't do before with CSS and JS.

Re: AliExpress runs silent WebAudio fingerprinting that breaks Bluetooth multipoint

#220

Post by Bjartr »

lxgr wrote: post #190
miki_oomiri wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? How would a browser "know" what classifies as finger printing? Literally every piece of the engine is used for finger printing. It can be mitigated, a bit, but I don't see how browsers can win that battle. Finger printing is a lost battle in my opinion, unless we drastically reduce what a web engine can do (like Tor does).

I feel like there are two levels of fingerprinting here, and a lot of the confusion is downstream of not properly distinguishing them: There's the kind that tries to find out what browser vendor, OS, and sometimes hardware you use, and the kind that tries to identify you across visits, unrelated origins etc. I agree that the former is probably inherently impossible to avoid to a large extent, but the latter is both a…

I've only encountered the latter described as fingerprinting. Which makes sense side, like fingerprints, the information is being used to uniquely identify an individual.

The former is traditional analytics and is not enough to uniquely identify an individual.

Not all analytics are as privacy invasive as fingerprinting.

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