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Being ambitious and being a dad

nicholascharriere.com

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Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#771

Post by thenoblesunfish »

Jtarii wrote: post #672
thenoblesunfish wrote: post #333

If we are talking about points people don't make, how about this: your life is going to get harder and worse as you get older. Your dreams will very likely die. Having kids will make that more clear, but honestly I know plenty of people with and without kids and they all struggle with the not fulfilling their ambitions (or realizing those ambitions and finding they weren't what they imagined), the fading of youth, di…

This seems like a very strange way to look at children, in effect they are a means to an ends for you personally to think your life means something. Surely you would want children because you think the world is intrinsicly beautiful and would want them to experience that? If you think life is bitter and depressing then why on earth would you force someone else to experience that as well? It just seems like a very nih…

My point is that nihilism and egotism are coming for you with or without children.

(And I, like many more than will admit, didn't want children, but my partner did)

Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#772

Post by graemep »

Aeolun wrote: post #177
reillyse wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it funny that I spent my 20s and 30s doing everything in my power to avoid having kids and at this stage in my life I’m doing everything to have kids. I do feel that 30 year old me would definitely be in better shape to chase kids around.

> I do feel that 30 year old me would definitely be in better shape to chase kids around. Can confirm that starting at 30 makes it relatively easy to keep up. Still not early enough though. Wish I’d started at 25. It’s mostly a matter of effort though. You’ll become very good at it out of sheer need if you genuinely want to keep up. In far better shape now than I was at 30, mentally and physically.

I was nearly 40 when my younger daughter was born. No problem. Kids helped keep me fit.

Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#773

Post by Gareth321 »

thenoblesunfish wrote: post #766
Gareth321 wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is arguably the toughest it will ever get. It's very normal to feel all kinds of tough emotions right now. If this were climbing Mount Everest, you'd be near the top.

You are probably right! But you might be assuming I wanted kids before I realized it wasn't all I'd hoped. I never really wanted them but said ok to my partner. I figured that most of the nicer and more fulfilled older people I knew had kids. Then again now I wonder if that's because there are plenty of older fulfilled people without kids off doing their thing and not interacting with the likes of me.

85% of women eventually have at least one child. So there are older folks out there without kids, but it's a relatively small group.

I'm sorry to hear you never wanted kids. I guess it's more complicated if you were sure beforehand that it's not for you. I hope you're able to balance the love with the effort.

Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#774

Post by spicyusername »

francisofascii wrote: post #445
spicyusername wrote: post #398

The older I get the more I realize ambition and "being ambitious" is a completely misplaced way to orient your life. The chance of validation from others is not a good reason for making one choice or another and a life made of choices of that kind will eventually leave you spiritually bankrupt. Make decisions based on what you're passionate about, based on what will bring and keep meaningful relationships into your l…

Agree, but with the caveat. we have to develop ambition, passion, habits, and success in the right areas of life, so that the right partner wants to choose us. (We typically don't get to pick.)

You pick when you choose them back.

Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#775

Post by siren2026 »

ido wrote: post #760
siren2026 wrote: post #676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a fallacy. You don't need to live a situation to be able to comment about it. Especially if we try to rationalize the choice. If you talk about "feelings", then fine. But be aware that "feelings" could simply be your hormone levels changing after having kids.

The feelings are definitely influences by hormones. Doesn't make them any less real.

Sure. But if you want a rationale discussion about what matters in life as this blog post and parent commenter suggest you probably don't want to get influenced by feelings.

There is a ton of philosophy written around this. Feelings are a very self-centric view of the world. The goal of rationalization is to take a wider systemic view without being self-centered.

Because if you push feelings and chemistry to the max you could also make an argument that taking meth and heroin is the most important thing in the world, as the feelings coming out of it are very real.

Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#776

Post by siren2026 »

Forgeties79 wrote: post #694
siren2026 wrote: post #676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a fallacy. You don't need to live a situation to be able to comment about it. Especially if we try to rationalize the choice. If you talk about "feelings", then fine. But be aware that "feelings" could simply be your hormone levels changing after having kids.

You don’t need to be a parent to be allowed to comment on or speculate about being a parent, but this is definitely one of those things you can’t guess at or estimate. Until it is your kid in front of you you can’t know what you’ll feel as a parent. Maybe it’s all hormones and monkey brain, but that doesn’t make it any different. Many people do not have that Hollywood Magic moment where “everything changed.” Some of…

Again, feeling should not matter that much in this discussion.

We are talking past each other because some/most parents in those discussion cannot get out of their self-centered view of the worlds based on "feelings". But if you make a claim that having a kid is the most important thing in the world, you should be able to substantiate that claim without going back to "feelings" that only you can feel.

Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#777

Post by the_af »

siren2026 wrote: post #676
marliechiller wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have children? If no, then how can you make this assertion? If yes, what or who is filling the gap that children fill for you?

This is a fallacy. You don't need to live a situation to be able to comment about it. Especially if we try to rationalize the choice. If you talk about "feelings", then fine. But be aware that "feelings" could simply be your hormone levels changing after having kids.

> You don't need to live a situation to be able to comment about it.

In the case of being a parent, yes, yo do. This is not something you can experience second-hand.

Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#778

Post by the_af »

siren2026 wrote: post #775
ido wrote: post #760

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The feelings are definitely influences by hormones. Doesn't make them any less real.

Sure. But if you want a rationale discussion about what matters in life as this blog post and parent commenter suggest you probably don't want to get influenced by feelings. There is a ton of philosophy written around this. Feelings are a very self-centric view of the world. The goal of rationalization is to take a wider systemic view without being self-centered. Because if you push feelings and chemistry to the max…

Being a parent is in large part about feelings.

Also, the context of this conversation was replying to this assertion:

> You don’t need children to have these sorts of feelings

So it's about feelings, not about "rational discussion". Not a "fallacy" like you claimed, but the actual topic of discussion.

Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#779

Post by the_af »

siren2026 wrote: post #776
Forgeties79 wrote: post #694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t need to be a parent to be allowed to comment on or speculate about being a parent, but this is definitely one of those things you can’t guess at or estimate. Until it is your kid in front of you you can’t know what you’ll feel as a parent. Maybe it’s all hormones and monkey brain, but that doesn’t make it any different. Many people do not have that Hollywood Magic moment where “everything changed.” Some of…

Again, feeling should not matter that much in this discussion. We are talking past each other because some/most parents in those discussion cannot get out of their self-centered view of the worlds based on "feelings". But if you make a claim that having a kid is the most important thing in the world, you should be able to substantiate that claim without going back to "feelings" that only you can feel.

> Again, feeling should not matter that much in this discussion.

Yes, they should. We are, after all, replying to the initial assertion that (and I quote) "you don’t need children to have these sorts of feelings [love, being needed, needing someone]".

> But if you make a claim that having a kid is the most important thing in the world

That wasn't a claim anybody made in this thread, and specifically everyone was talking from a personal perspective about parenthood, not making universal claims. Certainly not the person who wrote this (and to whom you indirectly replied):

> What's so easy to miss is the immense feeling of love, of being needed, of being loved, that words can't describe. I frequently tell people I feel like the grinch after he discovers Xmas - my heart is three times bigger. But you can't really see that it's just a feeling I carry with me.

If you don't like talking about feelings, fine. But this discussion was about feelings, not about some universal "most important thing in the world".

Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#780

Post by siren2026 »

the_af wrote: post #778
siren2026 wrote: post #775

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. But if you want a rationale discussion about what matters in life as this blog post and parent commenter suggest you probably don't want to get influenced by feelings. There is a ton of philosophy written around this. Feelings are a very self-centric view of the world. The goal of rationalization is to take a wider systemic view without being self-centered. Because if you push feelings and chemistry to the max…

Being a parent is in large part about feelings. Also, the context of this conversation was replying to this assertion: > You don’t need children to have these sorts of feelings So it's about feelings, not about "rational discussion". Not a "fallacy" like you claimed, but the actual topic of discussion.

This discussion is many level deeps based on a blog post that claims having kids is the most meaningful thing you can do with your life. And other grand similar statements.

>>> Raising kids is probably the most meaningful and significant thing I have done with my life.

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