Google has stopped pushing Git tags for some Android source code • Hacker News Board

Re: Google has stopped pushing Git tags for some Android source code

#231

Post by rob74 » Thu, Aug 20, 2026, 9:17 AM UTC

palata wrote: post #219

rob74 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it's as you wrote: they are making the source available, albeit in a very inconvenient way, and because there is no time limit specified, they're complying with the letter of the GPL (although not with its spirit), so you can't even realistically sue them. And the number of people who buy new Pixels to immediately install GrapheneOS on them is (no offense) negligible, so I don't think they'll see a sales impact…

> so you can't even realistically sue them Genuinely asking: are you a lawyer? Sounds to me that going from "it works easily and rapidly" to this deserves a big big fine. That's the only thing they understand.

No, I'm not (a lawyer might recommend to sue, hoping for a big payout, even if the chances of it happening are small?). I looked at the GPL text, and what Google is doing is really pushing the "If you convey a covered work, knowingly relying on a patent license, and the Corresponding Source of the work is not available for anyone to copy, free of charge and under the terms of this License, through a publicly available network server or other readily accessible means", but others have done the same or worse, and so far fines that are really painful for a large company are few and far between...

Re: Google has stopped pushing Git tags for some Android source code

#232

Post by chinathrow » Thu, Aug 20, 2026, 9:18 AM UTC

grapheneos wrote: post #195

chinathrow wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They need to do it in a reasonable amount of time. If they did that for years within hours and if we look at the tools available today, I would expect that "reasonable" equates to how they provided it prior: fast.

They did it for many years with 0 delay because they pushed the tags to AOSP. It was moved to Google Drive with a Google Forms setup to request access with manual fulfillment of the request. It was deliberately done to make it into a hassle. The delays are by design through making it a manual system regardless of how much of a delay was intended as part of this change. They could be automatically handling the request…

I understand - you said that before - I was just interpreting to what the GPL means with "reasonable time".

Maybe a lawsuit would change things?

Re: Google has stopped pushing Git tags for some Android source code

#233

Post by aleph_minus_one » Thu, Aug 20, 2026, 9:22 AM UTC

g6taa wrote: post #224

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's paying a bill in pennies. This is actually a problem that is solved in German law: § 3 Münzgesetz (MünzG), Absatz 1 [§ 3 Coins Act, article 1] "§ 3 Annahme- und Umtauschpflicht (1) Niemand ist verpflichtet, deutsche Euro-Gedenkmünzen im Betrag von mehr als 200 Euro bei einer einzelnen Zahlung anzunehmen. Erfolgt eine einzelne Zahlung sowohl in Euro-Münzen als auch in deutschen Euro-Gedenkmünzen, ist niemand ve…

This is explicitly about commemorative coins, not regular ones.

> This is explicitly about commemorative coins, not regular ones.

The formulation is not so easy to read (very common for German laws), but it includes also the regulations for normal coins:

"Erfolgt eine einzelne Zahlung sowohl in Euro-Münzen als auch in deutschen Euro-Gedenkmünzen, ist niemand verpflichtet, mehr als 50 Münzen anzunehmen; dies gilt auch dann, wenn der Gesamtbetrag 200 Euro unterschreitet."

"If a single payment is made using both euro coins and German commemorative euro coins, no one is obliged to accept more than 50 coins; this also applies if the total amount is less than 200 euros."

So, there exist two cases in which the vendor is not obliged to take more than 50 coins:

- The payment consists of both normal Euro coins and German commemorative euro coins

- The payment is less than EUR 200.

--

Independently, there does exist another source of law by which the vendor is not obliged to take more than 50 coins: Artikel 11 der EG-Verordnung Nr. 974/98 des Rates über die Einführung des Euro, EU-Amtsblatt L139 vom 11. Mai 1998:

> https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/DE/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELE... (German)

> https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELE... (English)

"As from 1 January 2002, the participating Member States shall issue coins denominated in euro or in cent and complying with the denominations and technical specifications which the Council may lay down in accordance with the second sentence of Article 105a(2) of the Treaty. Without prejudice to Article 15, these coins shall be the only coins which have the status of legal tender in all these Member States. Except for the issuing authority and for those persons specifically designated by the national legislation of the issuing Member State, no party shall be obliged to accept more than 50 coins in any single payment."

Relevant part of this article:

"Except for the issuing authority and for those persons specifically designated by the national legislation of the issuing Member State, no party shall be obliged to accept more than 50 coins in any single payment."

Re: Google has stopped pushing Git tags for some Android source code

#234

Post by _joel » Thu, Aug 20, 2026, 9:22 AM UTC

pferde wrote: post #213

matheusmoreira wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for GrapheneOS, and shame on Google. > They'll sell far fewer Pixels because of these overall changes. They don't even sell Pixels internationally. Can't tell you how glad I am you're moving to Motorola. I'm really looking forward to having a Motorola GrapheneOS phone!!

Are you sure, I got one and I'm in Central Europe.

They definitely sell them in the UK too, the OP is just wrong.

Re: Google has stopped pushing Git tags for some Android source code

#235

Post by microtherion » Thu, Aug 20, 2026, 9:24 AM UTC

rob74 wrote: post #208

grapheneos wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they are making the source available Not in the preferred form for modification expected by the build system and not in a reasonable amount of time. It's artificially delayed with no legitimate reason. > And the number of people who buy new Pixels to immediately install GrapheneOS on them is (no offense) negligible Nearly all of our current users bought a device specifically to install GrapheneOS. Our current userb…

Sorry, I stand corrected: Despite owning a Pixel 9 Pro myself, I didn't realize Google's Android phones market share was so tiny (1.1%! according to https://www.appbrain.com/stats/top-manufacturers ). In that case, of course, the number of Pixels bought because of GrapheneOS could be a significant fraction.

That’s 1.1% of ~1.1-1.2B Android phones sold per year. I dont’t know how long the average GrapheneOS user holds on to their device, but if 25% of them per year buy a new phone (rather than upcycling a used one or using their previous phone another year), that would amount to about 1% of Google’s annual sales at best.

Re: Google has stopped pushing Git tags for some Android source code

#236

Post by jraph » Thu, Aug 20, 2026, 9:31 AM UTC

simoncion wrote: post #121

jraph wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, you are right, my phrasing "but the GPL only speaks about the shape of the source code itself" is somewhat wrong or at least incomplete. I should have been more careful. It does force some stuff about how to convey the corresponding source; and it seems the GPLv3 tries to close some loopholes or address some situations more explicitly. You cited the parts of the GPLv2 and GPLv3 I should have. I stand by the p…

> my phrasing ... is somewhat wrong It's completely wrong. > I stand by the position that all this doesn't seem very restrictive though. Is your position that it's less restrictive than it needs to be? If that's not your position, then I'm not at all sure why you're bringing this up. If that is your position, then I disagree with you. The entire point of the GPL is to require distributors to "share and share alike".…

I think you got me wrong.

I think the GPL doesn't impose much on how one should be redistributing the source code.

I'm not sure I would like it to me more restrictive, and I completely agree with your reading (starting from "The entire point of the GPL...").

> If that's not your position, then I'm not at all sure why you're bringing this up.

My initial reply to you was me mostly agreeing with you: distributing via Google Drive is probably not a violation of the letter of the GPL. Making it a pain to get the source code is an obvious violation of its spirit though (your "don't be a fuckin asshole" point).

>> my phrasing ... is somewhat wrong

> It's completely wrong.

Well, what concrete restriction you see in the GPL about how to redistribute the source code, apart from "you must make it available in a reasonable way (and tell people they can get it, the GPLv3 is more explicit about this but Android doesn't have GPLv3 code AFAIK)?"

Re: Google has stopped pushing Git tags for some Android source code

#237

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 20, 2026, 9:31 AM UTC

[deleted]

Re: Google has stopped pushing Git tags for some Android source code

#238

Post by croes » Thu, Aug 20, 2026, 9:33 AM UTC

izacus wrote: post #191

croes wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did Apple claim iOS is open source?

So you're saying Google should stop open sourcing Android? That should like a bad incentive to make to defend Apple.

Apple is at least honest at that point.

Google claims an openness that doesn’t exist anymore

Re: Google has stopped pushing Git tags for some Android source code

#239

Post by ahoka » Thu, Aug 20, 2026, 9:39 AM UTC

jmole wrote: post #4

“In violation of GPL” is a stretch. Can’t imagine Google is making the process of obtaining source code easier on themselves though. Android has always been more source-open than “open source”. The vast majority of community contributions that make it into the codebase are security fixes and small bug fixes. Everything else is essentially all the work of Google and (to some extent) Samsung.

The intent is obviously to make it hard to get the source code, which violates the license.

Re: Google has stopped pushing Git tags for some Android source code

#240

Post by Dead_Lemon » Thu, Aug 20, 2026, 9:47 AM UTC

wakawaka28 wrote: post #140

pas wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what does the license say? provide source when asked or publish source? OSI is not clear on this either. ("Where some form of a product is not distributed with source code, there must be a well-publicized means of obtaining the source code for no more than a reasonable reproduction cost, [...]")

I hate to be that guy but publishing source online for free theoretically involves unbounded distribution costs that can't be recovered. That isn't the issue here but it should be considered before changing a license.

Let not forget that google heavily relies on opensource software. The Linux kernel being the obvious one in this discussion, which they make extensive use of.