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U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues

nytimes.com

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Re: U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues

#141

Post by tpm »

skeledrew wrote: post #103

And who's going to hold the US responsible for repayment? Way I see it, US has the power to just tell any creditor that they won't be repaying, whether through structuring it as some economic package or just straight up saying go suck it. The former's been done before (1933); maybe eventually we'll see the latter, if a nation has the balls to ask. And talking about it is pretty pointless, like talking about how wet y…

> US has the power to just tell any creditor that they won't be repaying

Sure, and what happens then? Nobody buys new gov bonds; non-gov debt rating stops making sense. For the financial system it's a shock so huge it's better to only do this if no other solution is possible, at which point the gov is bankrupt anyway.

Re: U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues

#142

Post by verzali »

skeledrew wrote: post #103

And who's going to hold the US responsible for repayment? Way I see it, US has the power to just tell any creditor that they won't be repaying, whether through structuring it as some economic package or just straight up saying go suck it. The former's been done before (1933); maybe eventually we'll see the latter, if a nation has the balls to ask. And talking about it is pretty pointless, like talking about how wet y…

So what happens when people stop lending money? No more military spending? No more social security? Massive tax rises? Hyper-inflation?

Re: U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues

#143

Post by Timon3 »

qeternity wrote: post #31
frogperson wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citizens United ruined the great american experiment. if you have seen the chart of campaign financing since CU, you would understand. Politicians have zero need to represent citizens because they know unlimited funds are available for marketing to keep/earn your seat. America simply is no longer a democracy or representative democracy.

It is still people, not money, who votes for them over and over again…

And the primary reason for people voting like this is the ungodly sums of money spent on elections, combined with the media apparatus built up by the right.

I don't think any democracy could survive Fox News. Unfortunately the global right is colluding to export this concept across the globe...

Re: U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues

#145

Post by skeledrew »

tpm wrote: post #141
skeledrew wrote: post #103

And who's going to hold the US responsible for repayment? Way I see it, US has the power to just tell any creditor that they won't be repaying, whether through structuring it as some economic package or just straight up saying go suck it. The former's been done before (1933); maybe eventually we'll see the latter, if a nation has the balls to ask. And talking about it is pretty pointless, like talking about how wet y…

> US has the power to just tell any creditor that they won't be repaying Sure, and what happens then? Nobody buys new gov bonds; non-gov debt rating stops making sense. For the financial system it's a shock so huge it's better to only do this if no other solution is possible, at which point the gov is bankrupt anyway.

> Nobody buys new gov bonds; non-gov debt rating stops making sense.

Sanctions, black-listing and potentially more for anyone trying to play cute and do anything that "disadvantages the US". The rest of the world is forced to comply in enforcing it all, because nobody has backing power to stand against the US in any way.

Re: U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues

#146

Post by skeledrew »

verzali wrote: post #142
skeledrew wrote: post #103

And who's going to hold the US responsible for repayment? Way I see it, US has the power to just tell any creditor that they won't be repaying, whether through structuring it as some economic package or just straight up saying go suck it. The former's been done before (1933); maybe eventually we'll see the latter, if a nation has the balls to ask. And talking about it is pretty pointless, like talking about how wet y…

So what happens when people stop lending money? No more military spending? No more social security? Massive tax rises? Hyper-inflation?

They will be told "lend us money, or else" and that loan will get processed because the alternative is worse.

Re: U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues

#147

Post by skeledrew »

DANmode wrote: post #114
skeledrew wrote: post #103

And who's going to hold the US responsible for repayment? Way I see it, US has the power to just tell any creditor that they won't be repaying, whether through structuring it as some economic package or just straight up saying go suck it. The former's been done before (1933); maybe eventually we'll see the latter, if a nation has the balls to ask. And talking about it is pretty pointless, like talking about how wet y…

> talking about it is pretty pointless, like talking about how wet you'll get swimming in a pool. Until the pool runs out of funding to do to replace the evaporated water.

It'll never run since they have the power to demand that it be kept sufficiently full.

Re: U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues

#148

Post by myrmidon »

Gud wrote: post #127
oivaksef wrote: post #58

They need to cut your taxes and raise everyone elses. The US needs the binface party as a credible 3rd choice.

What the USA needs is more decentralisation and direct democracy. Why has the federal state accumulated $40T debt?

Because it is politically much easier to just spend on medicare, social security and military than it is to raise taxes to cover that spending?

Interest on debt is already a double-digit percentage of spending, so the problem gets worse by itself.

And honestly: How many people in the US would actually change party only because of irresponsible spending? In my view, this is like priority number 4 at best for most people, and many at most moan about it instead of letting it drive their political choices. Political representatives also basically only ever throw it around as accusation against opponents, without ever actually doing better themselves (just consider the Trump-1 promise of getting rid of the debt during his first term: not even an attempt was made).

Re: U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues

#149

Post by tpm »

skeledrew wrote: post #145
tpm wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> US has the power to just tell any creditor that they won't be repaying Sure, and what happens then? Nobody buys new gov bonds; non-gov debt rating stops making sense. For the financial system it's a shock so huge it's better to only do this if no other solution is possible, at which point the gov is bankrupt anyway.

> Nobody buys new gov bonds; non-gov debt rating stops making sense. Sanctions, black-listing and potentially more for anyone trying to play cute and do anything that "disadvantages the US". The rest of the world is forced to comply in enforcing it all, because nobody has backing power to stand against the US in any way.

That's not how any of this works.

And anyway, most US bonds are held by US domestic entities.

Re: U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues

#150

Post by Gud »

skeledrew wrote: post #145
tpm wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> US has the power to just tell any creditor that they won't be repaying Sure, and what happens then? Nobody buys new gov bonds; non-gov debt rating stops making sense. For the financial system it's a shock so huge it's better to only do this if no other solution is possible, at which point the gov is bankrupt anyway.

> Nobody buys new gov bonds; non-gov debt rating stops making sense. Sanctions, black-listing and potentially more for anyone trying to play cute and do anything that "disadvantages the US". The rest of the world is forced to comply in enforcing it all, because nobody has backing power to stand against the US in any way.

Perhaps true 20 years ago, today I'm not so sure.

From across the pond, the USA looks like a has been who relies a lot on old merits. The world got bombed to pieces 80 years ago, but has step by step rebuilt itself.

The advantage the US had has been squandered by ineffective leadership.

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