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Google has stopped pushing Git tags for some Android source code

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Re: Google has stopped pushing Git tags for some Android source code

#181

Post by sophrosyne42 »

mjg59 wrote: post #84
flotzam wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GrapheneOS is arguing that throwing away the metadata of however many commits and squashing them into a messy tarball is not the "preferred form of the work for making modifications", and that a manual process where you have to fill out a form in order to get a Google Drive link a week later is not "a medium customarily used for software interchange" in current times. Those are quotes from the GPLv2.

If distributing under 3(b) then it's legitimate to only supply source on request. Historically source has been distributed without revision control history or metadata and been considered acceptable (the source tarballs on gnu.org are snapshots, for instance) so I think the preferred form argument is also tricky. I agree that there's huge value in having the individual commits, but from a GPL perspective we had this…

When the build system expects a certain metadata which is removed by the force pushes or tag removal, then that is arguably not the preferred form. Grapheneos notes this elsewhere in the thread. [1]

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49368983

Re: Google has stopped pushing Git tags for some Android source code

#182

Post by vjvjvjvjghv »

ProAm wrote: post #156
wakawaka28 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to be that guy but publishing source online for free theoretically involves unbounded distribution costs that can't be recovered. That isn't the issue here but it should be considered before changing a license.

Google literally has infinite money.

Infinite money in the pursuit of profit or an ego trip of an exec. No money for the benefit of community or society.

Re: Google has stopped pushing Git tags for some Android source code

#183

Post by rob74 »

grapheneos wrote: post #114

They stopped pushing tags for any of the Pixel kernel or userspace driver repositories to AOSP. They also stopped pushing AOSP releases specific to Pixels which is why AOSP now only gets yearly releases, QPR2 releases and security backports to both of those. Other OEMs use the yearly and theoretically also the QPR2 releases. Both the yearly and QPR2 releases get monthly security backports. Since they dropped Pixel su…

Well, it's as you wrote: they are making the source available, albeit in a very inconvenient way, and because there is no time limit specified, they're complying with the letter of the GPL (although not with its spirit), so you can't even realistically sue them. And the number of people who buy new Pixels to immediately install GrapheneOS on them is (no offense) negligible, so I don't think they'll see a sales impact from it...

Which is not to say that I'm on Google's side, this is absolutely a dick move from them, and they wouldn't have done it 20 or even 10 years ago, but today's Google is definitely no longer the "don't be evil" company.

Re: Google has stopped pushing Git tags for some Android source code

#185

Post by rob74 »

steve1977 wrote: post #180
grapheneos wrote: post #114

They stopped pushing tags for any of the Pixel kernel or userspace driver repositories to AOSP. They also stopped pushing AOSP releases specific to Pixels which is why AOSP now only gets yearly releases, QPR2 releases and security backports to both of those. Other OEMs use the yearly and theoretically also the QPR2 releases. Both the yearly and QPR2 releases get monthly security backports. Since they dropped Pixel su…

> GPL doesn't set a standard time limit for providing the sources, but that doesn't mean they can delay it indefinitely. I wonder actually what a court would say here and if "doesn't set a time limit" could mean "the source needs to be made available immediately". IANAL.

In the US? Under the current political and economic circumstances? Against Google's legal department? I wouldn't get my hopes up...

Re: Google has stopped pushing Git tags for some Android source code

#186

Post by QuantumNomad_ »

grapheneos wrote: post #114

They stopped pushing tags for any of the Pixel kernel or userspace driver repositories to AOSP. They also stopped pushing AOSP releases specific to Pixels which is why AOSP now only gets yearly releases, QPR2 releases and security backports to both of those. Other OEMs use the yearly and theoretically also the QPR2 releases. Both the yearly and QPR2 releases get monthly security backports. Since they dropped Pixel su…

> They'll sell far fewer Pixels because of these overall changes. It pushes GrapheneOS and other projects towards other devices instead. For us, Pixels are being used due to security rather than ease of supporting them. It's now a lot harder to deal with Pixels than it would be for many other devices but they're currently still the most secure option. We're working on changing that and have a lot less reason to contribute to improving Pixels.

Which brand and model is currently best supported by GrapheneOS, if I want to buy an Android device to run GrapheneOS on?

Re: Google has stopped pushing Git tags for some Android source code

#187

Post by tsimionescu »

JasonHarrison wrote: post #178
khimaros wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i have owned nearly every Google phone since the G1. i will not be purchasing any future devices from them unless they change course.

What will you purchase instead? It sucks that the modern smartphone OS market is a duopoly.

Since they're saying "Google phone", not "Android phone", I imagine the next purchase could be a Samsung or such.

Re: Google has stopped pushing Git tags for some Android source code

#188

Post by grapheneos »

ajross wrote: post #5
jmole wrote: post #4

“In violation of GPL” is a stretch. Can’t imagine Google is making the process of obtaining source code easier on themselves though. Android has always been more source-open than “open source”. The vast majority of community contributions that make it into the codebase are security fixes and small bug fixes. Everything else is essentially all the work of Google and (to some extent) Samsung.

> “In violation of GPL” is a stretch. The originally envisioned distribution method, in fact, was "Send FSF a blank 9-track tape and they'll fill it and mail it back". Nor, obviously, does anything prevent someone who downloads this from Drive from mirroring it on GitHub or wherever. This is arguably bad stewardship of a historically open source project. It's certainly not a license violation.

We said artificially delaying it for weeks or more is how they're violating it, not using Google Drive. It's also not provided in the preferred form for modification. It isn't in the form expected by the build system and causes it to not function in the way it did for their own builds.

Re: Google has stopped pushing Git tags for some Android source code

#189

Post by bulder »

steve1977 wrote: post #180
grapheneos wrote: post #114

They stopped pushing tags for any of the Pixel kernel or userspace driver repositories to AOSP. They also stopped pushing AOSP releases specific to Pixels which is why AOSP now only gets yearly releases, QPR2 releases and security backports to both of those. Other OEMs use the yearly and theoretically also the QPR2 releases. Both the yearly and QPR2 releases get monthly security backports. Since they dropped Pixel su…

> GPL doesn't set a standard time limit for providing the sources, but that doesn't mean they can delay it indefinitely. I wonder actually what a court would say here and if "doesn't set a time limit" could mean "the source needs to be made available immediately". IANAL.

A reasonable interpretation would be that they had a previous process that eliminated delivery latency and required no manual manpower for responding, so changing it has been done to induce artificial friction, against the intent of the license.

Not that the intent of a license can be enforced.

Re: Google has stopped pushing Git tags for some Android source code

#190

Post by grapheneos »

ajross wrote: post #12
Brian_K_White wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's paying a bill in pennies.

It's not even that. Downstream projects host their own mirrors already, this is an annoying hoop to jump through for the maintainers (basically suck down a bunch of tarballs for every release, analogous to grabbing stuff from FTP sites back in the day), but not exactly a terrible hardship compared to the really very significant work of maintaining a large project.

We said artificially delaying it for weeks or more is how they're violating it, not using Google Drive. It's also not provided in the preferred form for modification. It isn't in the form expected by the build system and causes it to not function in the way it did for their own builds.
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