What security feature is the 2026 Motorola Signature missing?
Devices with GrapheneOS support should be available in 2027
301–310 of 444 posts
Re: Devices with GrapheneOS support should be available in 2027
#302Earlier quoted context omitted.
I knew it would be their higher end devices but I really wish they would have put it on their lower end as well. I have a Moto G running LineageOS and it's my favorite phone ever. The ability to have my 800GB of music synced to a sdcard is something I'm loath to give up.
What is your music workflow? I got stuck in Spotify for new music but that obviously doesn’t work long term
Not him but I can as well throw in my setup.
For playback, I mainly use Navidrome.
For autotagging and importing (moving files), Beets.
For tagging edge cases, MusicBrainz Picard as the GUI and the Python tagging lib underneath it (mutagen iirc) with an LLM inside the pi cli agent for automation.
For format conversion and copying to portable devices, ffmpeg in custom bash scripts managed by an LLM.
Re: Devices with GrapheneOS support should be available in 2027
#303Earlier quoted context omitted.
> All the existing apps are on Android and iOS. Graphene lets you run them. We have waydroid for that. > You can't have a bank account on a Linux phone* because they won't let you, but you can on Android including on Graphene. Unless of course it uses those stupid integrity apis to block anything that isn't stock.
Graphene passes basic integrity, so most of them work. There is a list here: https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa...
If your bank requires you to use a device that is pre-compromised by Apple or Google, get a different bank.
Re: Devices with GrapheneOS support should be available in 2027
#304it'd be great if you could dual boot with grapheneos hidden right now if you have it with you graphene just needlessly raises suspicions, its unjustified but thats what it is
GrapheneOS currently has around half a million users but the userbase is rapidly growing. The pace of growth will increase once Motorola flagships officially support it. It will increase far faster once lower end Motorola devices meet our requirements for updates and security features so we can expand to those too. Becoming an increasingly mainstream OS is the best way to address the narrative that using it is suspicious, but that's already nearly entirely fearmongering.
On Pixels, GrapheneOS isn't the stock OS and therefore the devices show a notice each boot with the fingerprint of the non-stock verified boot key. This is a standard security feature on the hardware and something we require to be implemented. Verified boot itself is extremely useful for protecting against both physical attacks such as data extraction and also persistence for remote attacks. The verified boot notice provides a way to verify GrapheneOS is genuine without trusting the computer used to install it. The verified boot key is stored in the secure element along with the OS version for downgrade protection. It's enforced automatically so it's not as if people need to manually check the fingerprint each boot, but it does have value in protecting against tampering despite this. It's a feature we want to have on our own hardware too, although GrapheneOS can eventually be considered the stock OS without the verified boot notice.
GrapheneOS is also clearly installed on the SSD. Every block of the data partition is encrypted on storage but the firmware and OS images are public knowledge and verified through verified boot rather than being encrypted. Putting another boot stage before the OS in order to encrypt the publicly available OS images wouldn't achieve anything since that would identify it as being GrapheneOS itself. The only way to hide the OS would be if the hardware itself had a firmware-based passphrase prompt and the first boot stage of the installed OS was encrypted along with the verified boot key in the secure element being wiped when unlocking. It would be possible to provide, but that would be specialized hardware and therefore it could be identified based on the hardware instead of the software.
The stock Pixel OS isn't designed to be able to be installed alongside other operating systems. It assumes it's the only OS and handles updating both the firmware and itself via the A/B slots. It would be entirely possible to have a main OS in those A/B slots responsible for updating the SoC firmware and acting as a bootloader for other operating systems. That would clearly be there on the SSD if that's looked at and would show the verified boot notice every boot.
Re: Devices with GrapheneOS support should be available in 2027
#305Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because Android is miles ahead in terms of security, permission management, app separation, power management, privacy... Linux crowd can not even agree on compositor, and if systemd or sudo is a good idea.
Why should Linux users have to agree? run what you want, it's your computer.
Well, if you want a mass market device that runs Linux, you have to meet the market. Otherwise we can start tracking 2525 as the year of Linux on the smartphone. If man is still alive.
Re: Devices with GrapheneOS support should be available in 2027
#306Earlier quoted context omitted.
Graphene passes basic integrity, so most of them work. There is a list here: https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa...
If your bank requires you to use a device that is pre-compromised by Apple or Google, get a different bank.
[deleted]
Re: Devices with GrapheneOS support should be available in 2027
#307Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because you need app support. Not even Microsoft could pull that off.
What about running the whole Android infrastructure, but on top of a non-Android Linux distro? And this, on top of a Android kernel (otherwise you won't have the drivers yo uneed) The advantage being, we can manage packages using a regular Linux distro
Android has a proprietary HAL on both ends; the userspace interfaces to drivers are not the same as on "normal" Linux for almost any devices (baseband, video acceleration although this is at least EGL based, cameras, sensors, audio DSP, hardware media codecs, etc.), so by the time you replace every component of the OS, you've just made AOSP without the useful security parts.
> The advantage being, we can manage packages using a regular Linux distro
It's much easier, more plausible, and more logical to sandbox a regular Linux package-managed distro inside of Android, which numerous solutions exist for.
Re: Devices with GrapheneOS support should be available in 2027
#308I've never really understood why we chase Android-alikes on mobile platforms instead of trying to build on mainstream Linux. I know some folks in the nix community (nix-on-droid and other projects) have tried to bring us closer to this, but projects like Graphene seem to have a lot of traction.
Beyond the other answers here, doesn’t it make sense there were some reasonably bright people involved in the initial “let’s build a phone OS” and that given it’s sold more than a billion devices, maybe what Linux on a mobile device looks a heck of a lot like Android?
Re: Devices with GrapheneOS support should be available in 2027
#309I just wonder how they handle full Google's certification for hardware integrity + Google Play Store with GrapheneOS. They contradict on this part on the normal GrapheneOS mod and I don't see a way how they will not on Motorola phones. Banking apps (e.g. Revolut) block GrapheneOS actively and many other apps too. But it will be interesting times once they are out!
> Banking apps (e.g. Revolut) block GrapheneOS actively and many other apps too. You've misunderstood something here. Revolut doesn't "block GrapheneOS actively". I'm running Revolut and most of my banking apps on GrapheneOS right now. In my experience, there are two major categories of incompatibility: - High levels of Google Play Integrity checks: app only works on releases of Android that have been allowlisted by…
>Revolut doesn't "block GrapheneOS actively".
It's not happening for everyone but unfortunately:
Re: Devices with GrapheneOS support should be available in 2027
#310Specific devices: >At the time of writing, within ~12 months, in 2027, the 2027 Signature, Razr fold, and Razr flip will meet the hardware security requirements and should have official GrapheneOS support. Motorola is currently porting GrapheneOS to their devices. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49038982
I knew it would be their higher end devices but I really wish they would have put it on their lower end as well. I have a Moto G running LineageOS and it's my favorite phone ever. The ability to have my 800GB of music synced to a sdcard is something I'm loath to give up.
Motorola's flagships are going to be their first devices providing the updates and hardware-based security features required by GrapheneOS. It will come to lower end devices but it will take longer.
Snapdragon 8 Elite Gen 5 is the first Qualcomm SoC with hardware memory tagging (MTE). MTE isn't even available on the slightly lower end Snapdragon 8 Gen 5. A lot of the SoC security features are segmented based on price and only the flagship SoC platform has everything we need. Snapdragon's upcoming next generation SoC is the first truly providing everything we need. There's still a lot of work to do since providing the features on paper is different from having those fully integrated to match what we have on Pixels.