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Being ambitious and being a dad

nicholascharriere.com

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Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#641

Post by avgDev »

_tk_ wrote: post #409

I kinda miss the argument why so many “ambitious” people are bad parents. Maybe because it is too obvious? If you are not present for your child at the time your kid grows up (before and after school, weekends, etc) you are not a parent at all. You’re a roommate with certain privileges, but no child is interested in that. People who work 60+ hours a week will be “worse” parents than others.

I'm reading Careless People, and it discusses parents in high positions at Fb. They are not parents. They hire people to do most of the work. The author was "talked to" about sharing a story about her child.

My father worked 2 jobs in my teenage years. While I appreciate that he supported me to the best of his ability, I regret not having a connection with him. No trips, no plans together. Now, our relationship is need based.

Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#642

Post by throwfaraway4 »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #449
afc wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting perspective. Your first paragraph also describes my experience, perfectly. However, even though I also think nothing comes even close to parenthood for me, my perspective is that society strongly encourages —I'd even say strongly pressures— people to have kids, to feel that if you don't, it's almost like something is wrong with you. Maybe we're just different generations? :-)

I never felt that pressure to have kids. In fact, even though I waited until I was in my mid 30's, I was the first in my social circle to have kids (I guess I hung around with younger people?). I knew since I was a kid myself that I wanted to someday be a father. If society pushed me, it would have been when I was still in elementary school. After I had kids though… It was strange to scroll through coworkers social m…

I live in a neighborhood of older retired folks and I get this vibe from them as well when walking my younger kids. Their faces light up with joy. Just another season in life I suppose. Let's enjoy it while we can.

Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#643

Post by stephbook »

socalgal2 wrote: post #236
handedness wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would also add that, at least in my experience, those who are professionally ambitious and maximizing professional success, while being highly confident they are also succeeding at home, often have an inaccurate view of their home life. It's not until the kids are grown and openly fighting their demons that they realize the bargain that they made. It's that old adage of, anyone who thinks they're a great parent, pr…

I don't know what the right answer is but I do kind of feel this desire for equal effort might be misguided. My sister wanted to spend her time raising kids. Her husband less so. That is decision they made together. It's no different than any other difference. He like working on cars. She likes knitting. She doesn't require him to spend equal time on knitting and he doesn't require her to spend equal time on cars. Wh…

Those boarding schools make for some quality upbringing!

"Winston Churchill would recall the floggings, done until pupils “bled freely” and screamed loudly. In “Such, Such Were The Joys”, George Orwell writes of being beaten so violently that his headmaster broke his riding crop and “reduced me to tears”."

Sad little boys: the backlash against Britain’s boarding schools https://economist.com/britain/2023/05/28/sad-little-boys-the... from The Economist

Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#644

Post by anbotero »

ElProlactin wrote: post #249
avinoth wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is good if sailing is what you wanted and like to do, which is what the author and the OP is implying. You don't necessarily have to "succeed" or "reach" somewhere.

What I wrote isn't about "success". It's about direction. What the author is at risk of doing, in my opinion, is pretending to a certain extent that he can have his cake and eat it too. As I wrote in my original comment, "you can't have it all." Please don't take this to mean that you have to choose between your family and career (or a business). That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that, at a certain point…

Excellent, you reached the point that Edward Elric, from the first Fullmetal Alchemist anime, arrived at in the final episode(s): The illusion of balance, when everything in that world revolved around the Law of Equivalent Exchange.

Sometimes the rewards do not match the sacrifice/effort, but that doesn't mean you won't pick that same choice when given the chance, or that it was a "bad choice". If you accept what may come from your choices, you can more objectively act upon them.

Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#645

Post by a_c »

siren2026 wrote: post #632
Derbasti wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The passionate hunger to do something significant and meaningful with my life was a major reason I took care never to have any children. Raising kids is probably the most meaningful and significant thing I have done with my life.

When I hear people say this with all the morale high ground that comes with it I’m always wondering if it’s partially because of some hormonal changes. It has been proven recently that the human brain changes after having kids. I know you didn’t intend it that way but there are so many people that are extremely judgmental about having kids (or rather judging people that don’t have kids). I also understand that it’s s…

I feel that physical change the moment I saw my son first time. Something snapped/connected in my brain. I will do anything for that little thing. The feeling is visceral. It is very hard not to preach your best experience to others

Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#646

Post by tonyedgecombe »

code51 wrote: post #437
amouat wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree, except that you've taken ambitious to mean climbing the corporate ladder, which is a relatively narrow reading. It can also mean wanting a achieve a large dream or goal e.g. writing a book.

Or the dream of keeping a stable job.

The trouble with that is it's always someone else's decision whether you keep your job.

Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#647

Post by TimTheTinker »

jumpkick wrote: post #545
OvervCW wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely a lot of this can be experienced by associating with parents and their children rather than having them yourself, right? This may sound somewhat reductive, and please correct me if that is the case, but I find that I can be around and play with my nephew and experience all of this wonder and how he progresses through life, while not being around for the sleepless nights and tantrums that I feel are the "work"…

Obviously a personal anecdote and YMMV, but I have several nieces and nephews, and I've gotten to watch them grow over the last ~15 years. During this time, I've tried to spend as much time with them as I can. But I'm a new dad as of this year, and it's totally different. It really doesn't compare. There's only so much time you can spend with someone else's kid, even if they're family. Even seeing a niece or nephew e…

It also doesn't compare with the sheer joy of having a little one who joyfully loves the heck out of you because you've bonded with each other and they feel loved and secure with you -- you've cared for them, loved them unconditionally, been understanding, responsive, and emotionally stable with them, and patiently/consistently enforced healthy boundaries on their behavior.

In a sense, one could say there's no greater joy.

But there's also perhaps no greater pain when parenting gets really complex and hard. One of my kids is autistic and raising him has been incredibly difficult and painful (he's a teen now).

Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#648

Post by tonyedgecombe »

OvervCW wrote: post #493
mysterydip wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was on the fence for a long time as well. It just looked like a lot of work. And not to sugar coat it, it _is_ a lot of work. But it’s also been so rewarding. You get to see someone experience things for the first time, like riding a bike or eating a tomato. Teaching them it’s ok to have feelings, helping them overcome their fears, watching them make friends. Giving them the advice I wished I had heard from someone…

Surely a lot of this can be experienced by associating with parents and their children rather than having them yourself, right? This may sound somewhat reductive, and please correct me if that is the case, but I find that I can be around and play with my nephew and experience all of this wonder and how he progresses through life, while not being around for the sleepless nights and tantrums that I feel are the "work"…

What I found and I think this is quite common for men is my attitude to kids in general completely changed once I had my own.

Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#649

Post by marssaxman »

Derbasti wrote: post #252
marssaxman wrote: post #32

The passionate hunger to do something significant and meaningful with my life was a major reason I took care never to have any children. Having grown up in a large family within a religious subculture full of other large families, the amount of time and attention children consume was crystal clear from a young age, and I knew that I was going to need every scrap of energy I could spare for the work I wanted to do. Ye…

> The passionate hunger to do something significant and meaningful with my life was a major reason I took care never to have any children. Raising kids is probably the most meaningful and significant thing I have done with my life.

I am aware that this is true for many people, and I am glad it works for you. For me, it is a completely different category of experience.

Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#650

Post by tonyedgecombe »

TrueDuality wrote: post #636
faeyanpiraat wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kinda agree with you but Could you please elaborate on “ having kids does all the good things in life at once” as I dont see how is that so straightforward. I’m actually currently really conflicted on the idea whether I want or dont want kids.

I have a kid with my partner and I'm still not sure it was the right decision for me. They do become a full-time job in their own right and there is a whole set of skills that you can kind of learn through books but is going to be unique to your little one. The first couple of months were especially hard as they don't have much of a personality, don't really react much to the world around them, they're just feeding,…

The social thing is interesting, you will inevitably drift away from friends who don't have kids. Even for the ones who do you will be so busy with your own life that you won't get to see them much. You will probably end up with more contact with parents from their schools although that will stop suddenly when they finish.

Not sure what the solution is other than putting in some deliberate effort to maintain those relationships (which I didn't do).

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