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Children's stunted lungs show recovery in ultra low emission zone

bbc.com

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Re: Children's stunted lungs show recovery in ultra low emission zone

#261

Post by thelastgallon »

thelastgallon wrote: post #212

China has 350 million electric two-wheelers, 20 million EVs. China reduced air pollution from transportation by 80% in a decade. Delhi: 442. Lahore: 334. Beijing: 16. These are the levels of PM 2.5, one of the principle measures for air pollution, on November 19. How China cleaned up its air pollution – and what that meant for the climate: https://theconversation.com/how-china-cleaned-up-its-air-pol...

Outdoor pollution ---> Use these for transportation: walk, bicycle, e-scooters, public transit, electric 2 wheeler, EV

Indoor pollution ---> Use these for cooking (induction, electric resistance) stove, heatpump waterheater and furnace for HVAC

Would also be nice to do: stop using coal, gas power plants. These are usually farther out from cities and probably not the most urgent. (except when Elon Musk or new DCs decide to use gas turbines in cities).

Researchers say they have cracked how air pollution leads to cancer, in a discovery that completely transforms our understanding of how tumours arise: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-62797777 (discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32788706)

Surprise! Electric cars are already making California healthier (2023): https://electrek.co/2023/02/10/surprise-electric-cars-are-al...

Air Pollution Kills 10 Million People a Year. Why Do We Accept That as Normal? https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/08/opinion/environment/air-p...

Tiny air pollutants may cause changes in brain structure that resemble those of Alzheimer’s disease: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/25/well/mind/air-pollution-b...

It is important to use metrics and language that people can understand. Cigarette smoking is very well known, because public health initiatives make sure the harm is labeled. Air Pollution and Cigarette Equivalence: https://berkeleyearth.wpengine.com/air-pollution-and-cigaret...

Delhi’s air pollution equivalent to smoking 50 cigarettes per day but experts say it can be fixed: https://epic.uchicago.in/delhis-air-pollution-equivalent-to-...

Almost all countries failing to meet mark for PM2.5, tiny particles expelled by vehicles and industry that can cause health problems: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/mar/19/air-poll...

Bees struggle to find flowers because of air pollution: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37434381

Cars and automobility have killed 60–80 million people since their invention. 1 in 34 deaths are caused by cars and automobility with 1,670,000 deaths per year. Car harm: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39465354

Gas stoves pollute homes with benzene, which is linked to cancer: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36364524

Amazon backs power plant that may become top source of US climate pollution: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49249971

Re: Children's stunted lungs show recovery in ultra low emission zone

#262

Post by thrance »

mboto wrote: post #251
Symbiote wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right (Conservative) and far right (Reform) parties both say they will abolish low-emission zones and other measures to reduce pointing traffic. They made it into a culture war topic.

Reform is not a far right party. It is important not to polarise.

What is it, then?

Re: Children's stunted lungs show recovery in ultra low emission zone

#263

Post by pasc1878 »

vincnetas wrote: post #222
pasc1878 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In London that is difficult – there is not a lot of space. Plus the idea of having everything within a 15 minute walk including access to public transport.

highway != public transport And pollution from bus or tram is much easier to control. Looking at you petrolheads who like to "Rolling coal"

Yes but in London you are never far from a highway you cannot get away from them.

In London now many if not most buses are electric.

Re: Children's stunted lungs show recovery in ultra low emission zone

#264

Post by bell-cot »

satvikpendem wrote: post #4

Using scientists being "stunned" should take the same amount of relevance as someone being "slammed" in article titles.

Yes, and I really don't care if they've got a direct quote from a scientist. Far too likely that word was coaxed out of the scientist by a reporter or PR hack. Or he thought he needed to use that word to get enough attention to keep his research funding. Or he was a relatively closed-minded scientist.

HN needs a 's/^scientists stunned by/Scientists notice/i' filter for Titles.

Re: Children's stunted lungs show recovery in ultra low emission zone

#265

Post by Aozora7 »

simonsquiff wrote: post #51
XorNot wrote: post #5

So punchline, probably a good idea to electrify all the cars yeah?

100%, and not just due to no emissions / minimal break dust. The noise reduction is a massive dividend. I used to live in london 10+ years ago, and when I come back I’m stunned by the noise difference, it really is so much quieter especially in central london. EVs everywhere especially replacing the horribly noisy diesel black cabs and buses. Very noticeably different and much more pleasant, and improving all the tim…

Noise reduction benefit is marginal. Most of the noise comes from tires rather than the engine. At 30 km/h tires are louder than the engine, so an EV driving at 50 km/h, which is the typical city speed limit, isn't any quieter than an ICE car.

Re: Children's stunted lungs show recovery in ultra low emission zone

#266

Post by wartywhoa23 »

noelwelsh wrote: post #125
wartywhoa23 wrote: post #116

Newsflash, living in a healthy environment is healthy!

Pointless anti-intellectualism. There is a big difference between believing something is true, and demonstrating it is true and measuring the effect. One is a vibe. The other can drive policy.

It's not pointless anti-intellectualism, it's pro-humanism.

History holds enough examples of intellectuals who out of absolute lack of any human compassion subjected fellow human beings to anti-humane conditions, hoping to find and push the limits of their bodies and psyches in order to maximize profits, ahem, sorry, optimize spending.

And those who you hope to be able to set "policies" on further cramming of people into the machine are either exactly those who profit off that, or eat crumbs from that table.

Yet there are always heart/right hemisphere dead morons who need precise numbers and conclusions written in blood instead of simply relying on common sense.

Re: Children's stunted lungs show recovery in ultra low emission zone

#267

Post by Aurornis »

mrob wrote: post #114
Aurornis wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Living very close to busy highways is known to generate poor air quality. I recommend anyone in those locations buy an air purifier for their kids' rooms. I bought a couple reasonably priced HEPA purifiers and I change the filters on schedule. Replacement HEPA filters are very cheap. Also watch out for things that we do indoors that can generate bad air quality. I had a friend who bought a VOC meter and noticed very…

HEPA filters are counterproductive in standard air purifiers. Air purifiers pump their cleaned air directly into the dirty air of the room. It doesn't matter if that cleaned air is extremely clean, because it's immediately mixed with dirty air. What actually matters is how much clean air you produce: the "clean air delivery rate" (CADR). The more effective the filter the more it restricts airflow. If a filter is only…

> It doesn't matter if that cleaned air is extremely clean, because it's immediately mixed with dirty air

What matters is the gradual removal of particles from the air.

The HEPA purifiers I have move enough air that everything gets scrubbed. It works.

My house has a separate central air system with a non-HEPA air filter with a decent MERV rating for the bulk filtering. The HEPA air purifiers do the scrubbing of finer particles.

Don’t overthink this. This looks like knowing just enough to be dangerous but missing the big picture.

Re: Children's stunted lungs show recovery in ultra low emission zone

#268

Post by Aurornis »

hxtk wrote: post #260
kingstnap wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to seperate the clean and dirty air. Mixing them isn't as efficient but it should still be roughly 63% efficient (1-1/e).

The point isn’t that the HEPA filter won’t work under those conditions, it’s that if you can get away with not separating the clean and dirty air, you can achieve better filtration overall with a higher flow, lower resistance filter at a lower noise level. HEPA filters shine in use cases where you need single-pass filtration, like vacuum cleaner output filters or clean room air filters. If you don’t separate clean an…

> If you get to recycle the air through the filter several times, MERV-13 offers much better performance tradeoffs

This level of filter goes in the central air system.

The HEPA purifiers are for scrubbing the finer particles.

Re: Children's stunted lungs show recovery in ultra low emission zone

#269

Post by Aurornis »

vincnetas wrote: post #220
Aurornis wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Living very close to busy highways is known to generate poor air quality. I recommend anyone in those locations buy an air purifier for their kids' rooms. I bought a couple reasonably priced HEPA purifiers and I change the filters on schedule. Replacement HEPA filters are very cheap. Also watch out for things that we do indoors that can generate bad air quality. I had a friend who bought a VOC meter and noticed very…

what a nice externality example "I recommend anyone in those locations buy an air purifier for their kids' rooms" I drive the car, you buy the purifier.

What’s your suggestion? Just sit there and be angry that transportation exists?

You don’t think the parent commenter is also using transportation?

The pollution from transport also occurs with trains, buses, and any other vehicle that has wheels, brakes, or moves fast enough to stir up the air and kick particulates into the air.

People do what they can and control what’s within their reach.

Re: Children's stunted lungs show recovery in ultra low emission zone

#270

Post by Hugsbox »

aitchnyu wrote: post #190
nathancahill wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doctors used to prescribe a "change of air" in the 18-19th centuries. Maybe they still should.

I wanted to long for the time when people hated "Malaria" and wanted to move to "Beunos Aires". But they believed the arrows chase us at daytime and the plague engulf us at night, like in the Psalm.

Brother what are you even talking about
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