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Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

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Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#891

Post by aa-jv »

nailer wrote: post #869
aa-jv wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the IDF put Israeli soldiers lives on the line to avoid civilian casualties. Nonsense.

Yes really. They don’t need boots on the ground, they don’t need to do warning calls.

>the IDF put Israeli soldiers lives on the line to avoid civilian casualties.

Ah, I get it, you're talking about Israeli casualties, not innocent Palestinian children civilians.

They do need to put boots on the ground (which they've already carpet bombed), they do need to send warnings to the innocent people they are about to murder.

For the PR, which is necessary to the purpose of ethnically cleansing Gaza, unimpeded by the rest of the worlds' moral compass.

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#892

Post by Fizz43 »

giov4 wrote: post #675
Fizz43 wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true. It will only happen if they lose the information war. During 2023/2024 Iran did this exact same thing flooding the internet and no one hates them infact it worked and people link and share and boost their articles.

well then, maybe we should ask ourself why the hate! both against the propaganda (that everybody does, even if it's a very poor claim to say they all do it why hate us) and against the bomb to the ground war and genocidal violence happening. Why the hate against this if everybody else does it? and everybody else does it is a decent argument? Maybe we could do war without killing all civilians and razing cities to the…

I'm not sure what "we" or "our" is referring to here.

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#893

Post by MomsAVoxell »

Paradigma11 wrote: post #885
MomsAVoxell wrote: post #750

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just stop. The moral altitude you claim is a dire fallacy. You don’t speak Russian, or else you would already know the answer. And I’m pretty sure you know full well that any examples given to answer your question in earnest will simply be dismissed as “Russian propaganda” - just as the Russians dismiss Western claims as propaganda, or even ‘justifiable, given Western hostilities’ - but there is a long list of action…

One main difference is that those examples you brought up are ideological propaganda. RFE/RL try to amplify their message and yes, the current Russian regime is very antithetical to that message. Russian propaganda is not ideological, it tries to maximize the damage to western nations and uses whatever political and ideological message that will achieve that. They have been doing that for decades, which is something…

Ideology? Yes, pure hatred is ideological - no matter which side of the dialectic you choose to align yourself.

“American propaganda is not ideological, it tries to maximize the damage to Russia and uses whatever political and ideological message that will achieve that.”

Huh, what do you know, that can be “true” as well. And the US and its allies have been hostile towards Russia - actually, for centuries now.

I don’t find anything about Salisbury convincing - not the British investigations, nor the Russian ones.

And the reason for that is, the evidence presented never holds up in an open, public, liberal democratic court of law - instead, the ideological propaganda that “Russians are assholes because they kill people” is propagated in the court of public opinion, which is as vicious and banal as you can possibly imagine (or else we wouldn’t need courts in the first place), no matter whether you attempt to argue from the Russian or Western perspective.

Besides which, the moral altitude claimed “against” Russia by the West is simply a fallacy - you think we don’t murder people extrajudicially?

I’ve got an ideological point for you: dropping one bomb every 15 minutes for 26 years, mostly on innocent children, women, and men is wrong and should be stopped. Any state which attempts to stop that, gets my vote - but it is not going to be stopped by any state. It is going to be stopped by the criminal states’ citizen body, which is - as we see bright and clear today - completely and utterly distracted by the hatespew against the citizens of other states, intentionally, by the people dropping the bombs - because they also own and control the means by which ideological propaganda such as “hate Russia” or “hate the West” is propagated, and they use it to expand the market for their weapons production...

In short, you’re no better than any “Russian”, and neither am I. Our nations are murderous, criminal enterprises which produce mass murder at far, far greater scales than anything a trash can in Salisbury can produce.

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#894

Post by throw397432 »

Parae wrote: post #888
bamboozled wrote: post #828

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you should look into Israeli (Mossad) assessinations on foreign soils. Why don't you look into the many other regimes who assassinate people on foreign soils, do you feel outraged about it? I don't think people are arguing any of this is bad. They are arguing that people seem to get very upset about "Israel" doing the same thing other countries do, and for me, that seems very manufactured.

Can you name a country that targeted and killed deliberately more than 360 journalists in less than 3 years ? According to UN, reporters without borders, Stop Killing Journalists, International Federation of Journalists, and the Committee to Protect Journalists. Israel has killed more journalists in 180 days than all major conflicts around the world since World War 1.

It is a well-known fact that Hamas members worked part-time as “journalists” to produce propaganda for Al Jazeera et al.

See for example:

https://x.com/HillelNeuer/status/2071907247660073452

https://unwatch.org/report-unescos-misidentification-of-terr...

Also, your claim about all conflicts is ridiculous, and easily falsified.

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#895

Post by Paradigma11 »

MomsAVoxell wrote: post #893
Paradigma11 wrote: post #885

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One main difference is that those examples you brought up are ideological propaganda. RFE/RL try to amplify their message and yes, the current Russian regime is very antithetical to that message. Russian propaganda is not ideological, it tries to maximize the damage to western nations and uses whatever political and ideological message that will achieve that. They have been doing that for decades, which is something…

Ideology? Yes, pure hatred is ideological - no matter which side of the dialectic you choose to align yourself. “American propaganda is not ideological, it tries to maximize the damage to Russia and uses whatever political and ideological message that will achieve that.” Huh, what do you know, that can be “true” as well. And the US and its allies have been hostile towards Russia - actually, for centuries now. I don’t…

So you are saying Germany and the UK have no right to see Russia killing people on their soil as hostile act because the US drops some bombs in the middle east?

The history is far more banal and less nefarious than you give it credit. Nobody gave a fuck about Russia. Russia was a self limited kleptocracy and everybody just ignored it because nobody needed the headache. That is why the reaction to the land grab in Georgia and later Crimea was pretty muted and everybody just hoped that Putin would be sated and ride into the sunset as great leader who took Crimea home into the motherland.

But he wants an empire, and an empire can not be an empire if nobody cares. So he overplayed his hand to sate his vanity. One of his first public announcements after the invasion was: "I hope I am now being heard.."

Well, the World heard and now it is raining oil in Moscow and the Russian provinces are getting depopulated.

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#896

Post by throw310822 »

thisislife2 wrote: post #576
throw310822 wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MEMRI is the US non-profit organization that provides translations from Arabic for the Western media: "MEMRI was co-founded by Israeli ex-intelligence officer Yigal Carmon and Israeli-American political scientist Meyrav Wurmser in 1998. MEMRI describes itself as being independent and non-partisan. Some critics have described MEMRI as aiming to portray the Arab world and the Islamic world in a negative light by produc…

That explains a lot! Yesterday, I came across this article - Outrage In Oman Over Trump's Threat To Bomb The Sultanate... - https://www.memri.org/reports/outrage-oman-over-trumps-threa... and posted it on HN. But then, I had second thoughts as I had never heard of MEMRI and a scan of the website revealed a lot of antisemitic content and in general poor quality, tabloid like "hyped" up articles. The website also had n…

Yes. And these people have successfully managed to pollute the US information system with their "independent reporting" on the Middle East media for close to thirty years.

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#897

Post by watutalkinbout »

starik36 wrote: post #880
watutalkinbout wrote: post #835

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you genuinely mean this, at least somewhat naive. I believe Russia and Ukraine have had many peace talks, and Putin really wants peace. It's just those peaky Ukrainians not agreeing.

That’s a nonsense statement. Ukraine got invaded. Similarly to Im Israel being invaded on Oct 7, 2023. What exactly is your solution to this conflict. Other than making snide comments.

I guess your viewpoint on that varies entirely based on your preferred time period, and my responses vary based on how realistic or honest I believe the response is.

I'm not sure there is a win-win solution, and I think there are sizeable elements on both sides that don't want one, but the current approach absolutely won't lead to one.

My preference is for minimising the suffering of children.

At present the long run situation seems to be that one group of people (who - whether you like it or not - were displaced from their land) suffer continuous stress and roughly 50 times the death and injury rates than the other group of people who live mostly normal lives with the threat of terror attacks.

Entertaining the idea that those people are going become less extreme under these conditions seems rather unlikely.

In Northern Ireland the numbers killed on both sides (including IRA terror attacks within Britain) were a dramatically closer ratio.

I think it is pretty much impossible to achieve anything politically when the side without power is asked to trust the side with power when it sees little restraint.

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#898

Post by MomsAVoxell »

Paradigma11 wrote: post #895
MomsAVoxell wrote: post #893

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ideology? Yes, pure hatred is ideological - no matter which side of the dialectic you choose to align yourself. “American propaganda is not ideological, it tries to maximize the damage to Russia and uses whatever political and ideological message that will achieve that.” Huh, what do you know, that can be “true” as well. And the US and its allies have been hostile towards Russia - actually, for centuries now. I don’t…

So you are saying Germany and the UK have no right to see Russia killing people on their soil as hostile act because the US drops some bombs in the middle east? The history is far more banal and less nefarious than you give it credit. Nobody gave a fuck about Russia. Russia was a self limited kleptocracy and everybody just ignored it because nobody needed the headache. That is why the reaction to the land grab in Geo…

I think that Germany and the UK have all the rights they need to prosecute the criminals that have committed crimes on their territory, and doing so openly and democratically is the right kind of justice.

But these incidents do not automatically give cause to hate the entire Russian nation any more than, say, the actions of the IDF and the Israeli government should be used to justify hatred of all Jews, everywhere.

Obviously, they shouldn’t.

> Nobody gave a fuck about Russia.

This is so untrue. Western empires have been trying to balkanize Russia and colonize its resources, aggressively - since the 1800’s up until the modern era. Russia has been demonized for centuries so that Western powers can have a justification for their war industries.

See, this is the problem with the lack of proper history education in the West. You can’t get your bearings from the History Channel alone.

And then, there is international law. Do you really think the US and its allies are law-abiding members of the international community, given the grand litany of human rights abuses, war crimes, and crimes against humanity that have been committed this century alone?

One bomb dropped every 15 minutes on an innocent life, for 26 years, does not give those next in line in the Western targeting sights much hope for peace. While Americans and other Western citizens (including Germans and Brits) are utterly myopic about this, the rest of the world are really not. The crimes against humanity committed by the 5-eyes states alone, far exceed anything that Russia has done thus far. By a huge, huge margin.

> “depopulated”

See also, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Somalia, Pakistan, Palestine ..

Wake me up when you start demanding justice for the war crimes of Mosul with the same ferocious tenacity as you call for Putins’ ears on the table.

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#899

Post by n4r9 »

crnkofe wrote: post #889
n4r9 wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly, but is an LLM is capable of this?

Imo it can support the separation in meaningful ways. There are many political topics where opinions are flooding online forums much quicker than anyone with informed opinion can answer or digest them Having a quick reference for "verifying" statements would be useful. Sure LLMs are probabilistic but we don't have any issues using them for building software which runs as part of society infrastructure nowadays.

True, but software is very different to general knowledge. For example, it's easier to obtain reference documentation from the person who wrote the language. It's much easier to run tests to validate a given attempt. And the general discourse about how to implement a given solution or architecture is leagues apart from, say, the general discourse around the Israel-Palestine conflict.

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#900

Post by bsaul »

bigyabai wrote: post #696
eclips0 wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "No one is doing it as much as Israel does" How could you possibly know that? Do you have any numbers that put Israel's efforts into perspective, compared to those of other countries? This is not a good faith argument whatsoever.

There are uncensored interviews of former CIA agents conducted by credible reporters like Seymour Hersh. In The Samson Option , several witnesses confirm that Israel had unprecedented access to US spy satellites and convinced the CIA to cover up the (extremely controversial) Dimona facility. Both of those "favors" are beyond anything that most US allies received at the time, especially at Israel's size. Even America'…

« Even America's closest postwar allies like the UK, Sweden and Japan did not get that type of diplomatic cover, it was exclusive to Israel.«

wasn’t echelon a joint collaboration between the US and the UK ?

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