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Where Human Sleep Went Wrong

nautil.us

31–40 of 139 posts

Re: Where Human Sleep Went Wrong

#31

>“No way. They’re partying all night.” But they can, because there’s no top-down pressure to go into the office at 8 a.m. They’re free to catch supplemental sleep as needed throughout the 24-hour period. This feels like the key point to me. These societies follow their body and go to sleep when they are tried, while us in the west have to sleep at a specific time to fit our schedules.

A single block of sleep is a relatively new behaviour, I suspect partially driven by the availability of cheap sources of light and heat. https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220107-the-lost-medieva...

Re: Where Human Sleep Went Wrong

#32

I think people in HN (and in general) have to remember the central axes of evolution before digesting this kind of article. I've already seen comments like it's "odd that no species has ended up evolving a continuous maintenance system" and "sleep has a higher opportunity cost in humans" in this comments section. This is a common, but poor framing of evolution. Remember: the only real rule with evolution is "did this…

Did their genes survive more, you mean. Hyper-vigilance could be maladaptive for the individual and still survive if it benefits others that carry the gene for it.

Re: Where Human Sleep Went Wrong

#33
post #7
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People already live in different altitudes, ie with vastly different amounts of rock between themselves and the bits of the earth that produce her magnetic field. So colour me skeptical of this claim as well. And while I like going barefoot for other reasons, I don't think it makes much of a difference to the magnetic fields.

> People already live in different altitudes, ie with vastly different amounts of rock between themselves and the bits of the earth that produce her magnetic field. It's not really the same thing. Construction and especially the high content of charged metal (whether it's power conduits or plain old frame) may make a considerable difference.

What about flowing underground water when sleeping on the ground?

What about the metal frame of a bed?

Re: Where Human Sleep Went Wrong

#34

More fragmented sleep, with people talking in the night, etc. I guess that's different from the low, unnatural, rumbles of cars and aeroplanes the majority of people have to put up with.

I could only wish for low unnatural rumbles of cars. In 3rd world countries it's non stop horns and noisy motorbikes

Re: Where Human Sleep Went Wrong

#35

>“No way. They’re partying all night.” But they can, because there’s no top-down pressure to go into the office at 8 a.m. They’re free to catch supplemental sleep as needed throughout the 24-hour period. This feels like the key point to me. These societies follow their body and go to sleep when they are tried, while us in the west have to sleep at a specific time to fit our schedules.

A single block of sleep is a relatively new behaviour, I suspect partially driven by the availability of cheap sources of light and heat. https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220107-the-lost-medieva...

This is a contentious theory with little actual historical backing. Most likely people have been sleeping in one block since forever.

Re: Where Human Sleep Went Wrong

#36
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A single block of sleep is a relatively new behaviour, I suspect partially driven by the availability of cheap sources of light and heat. https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220107-the-lost-medieva...

This is a contentious theory with little actual historical backing. Most likely people have been sleeping in one block since forever.

> Most likely people have been sleeping in one block since forever.

Does that have stronger historical backing?

Re: Where Human Sleep Went Wrong

#37

More fragmented sleep, with people talking in the night, etc. I guess that's different from the low, unnatural, rumbles of cars and aeroplanes the majority of people have to put up with.

I could only wish for low unnatural rumbles of cars. In 3rd world countries it's non stop horns and noisy motorbikes

Car horns gotta be up there as some of the worst inventions of the 20th century, noise pollution galore.

Re: Where Human Sleep Went Wrong

#38
post #30

I think people in HN (and in general) have to remember the central axes of evolution before digesting this kind of article. I've already seen comments like it's "odd that no species has ended up evolving a continuous maintenance system" and "sleep has a higher opportunity cost in humans" in this comments section. This is a common, but poor framing of evolution. Remember: the only real rule with evolution is "did this…

I can see why it isn't a local or global maxima solving function, but it surely can be modelled by one, right?

I'm a biologist so forgive me the poor wording, but there are "infinitely high" peaks/walls in the evolutionary landscape, as in: "the human urinary system has some evolutionary constraints and anatomical features that are not optimally designed from an engineering perspective, but they are generally functional and reflect our evolutionary history rather than deliberate design." So in that sense, a global maxima (minima?) solving function will probably not arrive at what we have, it has to take into account our evolutionary path, in its entirety (as in the whole tree.), because it is all encoded in 1 (or several) long molecules, and a radical changes would take a rewrite of many parts at the same time, which just does not happen. Maybe at some point we can do it ourselves... though I imagine there being a lot of unintended consequences in other places in the body :).

Another example is that sometimes complexity in a cell signalling cascade is simply there to get some timing right (ie delay some response), and the complexity is just there, and won't simplify by itself -> But then later the complexity may start to serve some purpose. Just like proteins that are "copypasta-ed" in the genome, leaving one copy free to mutate and attain a function, or not... etc etc.

Re: Where Human Sleep Went Wrong

#39
post #30

I think people in HN (and in general) have to remember the central axes of evolution before digesting this kind of article. I've already seen comments like it's "odd that no species has ended up evolving a continuous maintenance system" and "sleep has a higher opportunity cost in humans" in this comments section. This is a common, but poor framing of evolution. Remember: the only real rule with evolution is "did this…

I can see why it isn't a local or global maxima solving function, but it surely can be modelled by one, right?

Evolution is the ultimate "good enough". Once the required threshold is passed, pressure stops. The threshold might constantly be moving due to competition, environment etc.

Re: Where Human Sleep Went Wrong

#40
post #38
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see why it isn't a local or global maxima solving function, but it surely can be modelled by one, right?

I'm a biologist so forgive me the poor wording, but there are "infinitely high" peaks/walls in the evolutionary landscape, as in: "the human urinary system has some evolutionary constraints and anatomical features that are not optimally designed from an engineering perspective, but they are generally functional and reflect our evolutionary history rather than deliberate design." So in that sense, a global maxima (min…

That is the difference between global and local optima. We're not at a local optimum though, our bodies can probably evolve to produce half the urine or something without changing the route, but there is no evolutionary pressure to do so.
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