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Where Human Sleep Went Wrong

nautil.us

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Re: Where Human Sleep Went Wrong

#11

Post by salawat »

moffkalast wrote: post #5

> Sleep is critical to human functioning, and yet, we sleep fewer total hours than any other ape, and are still arguably the most evolutionarily successful of the primates > humans are weird outliers—we’re the shortest sleeping primates, yet we pack in the most REM sleep relative to this short duration Isn't that sort of the point? Sleep is a detrimental necessity and the more efficient an organism is in needing less…

The fact they electrically signal via chemical analogs fuelled by immersion in nutrient bearing fluid that also accretes waste products, yet is kept separate from the primary loop of the cardiovascular system by the blood-brain barrier?

Re: Where Human Sleep Went Wrong

#13

Post by exceptione »

moffkalast wrote: post #5

> Sleep is critical to human functioning, and yet, we sleep fewer total hours than any other ape, and are still arguably the most evolutionarily successful of the primates > humans are weird outliers—we’re the shortest sleeping primates, yet we pack in the most REM sleep relative to this short duration Isn't that sort of the point? Sleep is a detrimental necessity and the more efficient an organism is in needing less…

  > It's still very odd that no species has ended up evolving a continuous maintenance system that can run while conscious
Great point. Afaik, our bodies do preserve energy when we sleep/rest. A few questions that needs to answered first:

- will gains of 24/7 hunting/foraging offset the extra energy costs? Lions sleep 16-20 hours a day, according to the internet.

- do continuous maintenance systems imply duplicate systems? If so, I have a hunch that even a mere 40% increase in energy expenditure would quickly undo the gains in waking hours.

Re: Where Human Sleep Went Wrong

#14

Post by dotancohen »

krige wrote: post #7
eru wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People already live in different altitudes, ie with vastly different amounts of rock between themselves and the bits of the earth that produce her magnetic field. So colour me skeptical of this claim as well. And while I like going barefoot for other reasons, I don't think it makes much of a difference to the magnetic fields.

> People already live in different altitudes, ie with vastly different amounts of rock between themselves and the bits of the earth that produce her magnetic field. It's not really the same thing. Construction and especially the high content of charged metal (whether it's power conduits or plain old frame) may make a considerable difference.

Do many people sleep in such tall buildings? Obviously they exist, but I can't think of any over-20 story residential building I've ever been in. Office space, sure, but not residential.

Re: Where Human Sleep Went Wrong

#15

Post by syllogism »

This interview feels weird to me, maybe because there's lots of places where I'm thinking there's an obvious idea that isn't raised.

Like, it seems obvious to me that sleep has a higher opportunity cost in humans than most other animals. So naturally there's more evolutionary pressure in humans to sleep more efficiently.

Is this actually true? Dunno! But it was really weird that it doesn't get brought up.

Re: Where Human Sleep Went Wrong

#16

Post by krackers »

Flashtoo wrote: post #3

> Some emerging research suggests Earth’s magnetism matters, as well. Being barefoot on the ground versus 30 stories high in a downtown skyscraper puts you in a completely different magnetic environment. Really? My instinctive reaction to this statement is that it's quackery. Would be very interested to see headlines appear about this if it's true.

There might be precedent for being able to detect changes in magnetic field

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/dogs-poop-in-alignment-...

but then again maybe not

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S15587...

Re: Where Human Sleep Went Wrong

#17

Post by dotancohen »

salawat wrote: post #11
moffkalast wrote: post #5

> Sleep is critical to human functioning, and yet, we sleep fewer total hours than any other ape, and are still arguably the most evolutionarily successful of the primates > humans are weird outliers—we’re the shortest sleeping primates, yet we pack in the most REM sleep relative to this short duration Isn't that sort of the point? Sleep is a detrimental necessity and the more efficient an organism is in needing less…

The fact they electrically signal via chemical analogs fuelled by immersion in nutrient bearing fluid that also accretes waste products, yet is kept separate from the primary loop of the cardiovascular system by the blood-brain barrier?

But why is that fundamentally different from the technobabble description of any other vital organ?

Re: Where Human Sleep Went Wrong

#18

Post by aqme28 »

moffkalast wrote: post #5

> Sleep is critical to human functioning, and yet, we sleep fewer total hours than any other ape, and are still arguably the most evolutionarily successful of the primates > humans are weird outliers—we’re the shortest sleeping primates, yet we pack in the most REM sleep relative to this short duration Isn't that sort of the point? Sleep is a detrimental necessity and the more efficient an organism is in needing less…

> It's still very odd that no species has ended up evolving a continuous maintenance system that can run while conscious, the benefits when hunting other animals that need sleep would be enormous, so there has to be significant evolutionary push for it.

I disagree. Endurance hunters walk an animal down throughout a single day. Sleep isn't the bottleneck. Efficient bipedalism and sweat are enough.

Re: Where Human Sleep Went Wrong

#19

Post by oulipo »

hlynurd wrote: post #12

>the Hadza uniformly reported high satisfaction with their sleep. And why wouldn't they? This is (presumably) the only kind of sleep they know.

Well probably us modern human only know the "8h sleep at night" kind of sleep, yet a lot of people would tell you whether they're satisfied or not with their sleep

Re: Where Human Sleep Went Wrong

#20

Post by ymolodtsov »

Flashtoo wrote: post #3

> Some emerging research suggests Earth’s magnetism matters, as well. Being barefoot on the ground versus 30 stories high in a downtown skyscraper puts you in a completely different magnetic environment. Really? My instinctive reaction to this statement is that it's quackery. Would be very interested to see headlines appear about this if it's true.

And Earth's magnetic field is extremely weak
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