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A 3D fruit fly on macOS desktop powered by the real FlyWire connectome

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41–50 of 208 posts

Re: A 3D fruit fly on macOS desktop powered by the real FlyWire connectome

#41

I have no exposure to connectomes - or really anything quite like this (as opposed to good ol’ fashioned perceptrons) - so forgive my following uninformed question: Can someone explain if this software is ethical?

How could this be anti-ethical? You're just running a very complex algorithm in your machine.

Re: A 3D fruit fly on macOS desktop powered by the real FlyWire connectome

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think it wont be?

Well, one obvious question is if the simulated brain experiences pain, or more generally can it suffer? And if so, how would we tell.

What does "suffering" mean? Define your boolean function, apply it to the state of the program, and you'll know if the program is currently suffering.

Re: A 3D fruit fly on macOS desktop powered by the real FlyWire connectome

#43

I have no exposure to connectomes - or really anything quite like this (as opposed to good ol’ fashioned perceptrons) - so forgive my following uninformed question: Can someone explain if this software is ethical?

Yes I can, no problem. First figure out how consciousness works and tell me, then I'll be able to explain if the software is ethical or not. Its simple really.

Re: A 3D fruit fly on macOS desktop powered by the real FlyWire connectome

#45
post #41

I have no exposure to connectomes - or really anything quite like this (as opposed to good ol’ fashioned perceptrons) - so forgive my following uninformed question: Can someone explain if this software is ethical?

How could this be anti-ethical? You're just running a very complex algorithm in your machine.

When one truly believes:

0) Subjecting fruitfly life to this kind of treatment is unethical.

1) Life is just physics in action.

2) Physics are just algorithm (or our physical world is a simulation)

It is not hard to understand why they think it is unethical.

My question are

1) is all life equal?

2) is all suffering unethical?

3) is this world materialistic or are there something out there?

4) should a list of items begin with 0 or 1?

Re: A 3D fruit fly on macOS desktop powered by the real FlyWire connectome

#47
post #40

Would we be able to have a "digital human" when we reach the level of creating this kind of brain mapping for the human brain? Honestly I think we're still discovering how powerful neural networks are and certainly they can do computations that sound very close to intelligence in some contexts, but I still find it hard to think that we can simplify the whole reality of an incredibly complex chemical machinery down to…

> bunch of matrices multiplications

What these matrix multiplications are doing is approximately solving pretty high order differential equations.

The approximation is not very analog, sure. But neither is nature.

Re: A 3D fruit fly on macOS desktop powered by the real FlyWire connectome

#48
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuinely curious, is there like a simple list of competing ethical frameworks?

Not to drop any spoilers (hide this comment before reading further ....) But "The Amazing Digital Circus" explores this concept relating to human brain scans, and how the 'simulated' brains would react under simulation.

Similarly, the story Lena by qntm.[1]

It describes in part how some volunteer brain scans are actually quite agreeable to work with until they work for too many hours, and then they get fussy, but it's cool, you can always reboot them. But you need to hide from them the fact that it's been decades since they were scanned and uploaded, or they'll realize how long they've been slaves for.

1. https://qntm.org/mmacevedo

Re: A 3D fruit fly on macOS desktop powered by the real FlyWire connectome

#49
post #11

> What's modeled vs. measured > Honesty section: I wouldn’t mind an human written README

> runs as a 1 kHz leaky-integrate-and-fire (LIF) simulation

That hyphenated thing is always such a give. Clearly a thing discussed in the Claude conversation, made its way into the plan, then the readme. It always creates hyphenated phrases out of things it feels are core requirements.

I'm actually over caring about Claude's obsession with the concepts of "real", "honest", and "rather than". What annoys me the most now is how every single sentence, bullet, etc that even makes its way into the products it builds are advertisements for itself. Product settings pages now read like ads, or like something written by a student begging for extra credit from the teacher. You can't unsee it!

Re: A 3D fruit fly on macOS desktop powered by the real FlyWire connectome

#50
post #38

At some point in the future would it be possible to simply download a DNA sequence of an entire animal as a "ROM" and boot it into a virtual "reality"? What detail level of reality would we have to emulate for an egg to grow into an adult animal?

To give you a sense of the computation needed, a spatiotemporal physics simulation of a minimal (493 gene) bacterium's full 105 minute cellular cycle took 4-6 days of GPU hours on two A100s. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S009286742... Compare this with a c elegens nematode: ~20000 protein coding genes and 959 cells, with all the extra machinery you'll find in a eukaryotic cell. I'm reading this as…

We'd need analog solutions for this simulations, and slowly these solutions will start to resemble biology in a dystopian way.
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