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A 25-year-old video patent just expired, ending a legal headache for Linux

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Re: A 25-year-old video patent just expired, ending a legal headache for Linux

#21

Post by somat »

dlcarrier wrote: post #4
unfitted2545 wrote: post #2

Are patents a necessary evil?

I used to think they were entirely useless, but since then I've learned of many instances where a much better technology is developed because the first iteration is patented. For example, the Wright brothers biggest contribution to aviation was suing everyone using wing warping ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_brothers_patent_war ) which greatly advanced the adoption of the much more advanced ailerons. Software…

The wright brothers patent was not on wing warping, it was on controlling a vehicle in the air. In short the Wright brothers did not invent the aeroplane they invented how to control a aeroplane.

https://www.wright-brothers.org/History_Wing/Wright_Story/Sh...

"We wish it to be understood, however, that our invention is not limited to this particular construction, since any construction whereby the angular relations of the lateral margins of the aeroplanes may be varied in opposite directions with respect to the normal planes of said aeroplanes comes within the scope of our invention."

Some people (Curtis) felt this claim was far too encompassing and should not be enforced. But I don't know, These guys just spent a decade working out an entirely new discipline, aeronautical control. And you don't think they deserve exclusive exploitation rights to that discipline for the next 20 years?

Re: A 25-year-old video patent just expired, ending a legal headache for Linux

#22

Post by nemomarx »

senshan wrote: post #20

Brazil? Why a Brazilian patent is of such a significant interest elsewhere?

I think this was the final patent on it that was valid anywhere, so now the status changes from "someone has a patent globally and we need to consider this" to "no one has a patent." If you're distributing something globally, even one market that still has the patent might stop you from default shipping a driver touching on it, or you might have to worry about court orders at least. It's hard to avoid jurisdictions on the open web.

Re: A 25-year-old video patent just expired, ending a legal headache for Linux

#23

Post by somat »

unfitted2545 wrote: post #2

Are patents a necessary evil?

I don't think patents are inherently evil, however they certainly can be used for evil.

But The basic idea is sound. If you invent a novel mechanism and publish it the government will grant you exclusive economic exploitation rights to that mechanism for the next 25 years. After that it is now fair game.

It is an attempt to solve the real problem that it is much harder to be first than second, the guy in first place has to spend all that time and effort to develop the thing, and the guy in second just has to copy the guy in first. To rectify this social injustice the patent system was developed, where the government would grant and enforce economic exploitation rights of the mechanism to the inventor.

Re: A 25-year-old video patent just expired, ending a legal headache for Linux

#24

Post by bitwize »

unfitted2545 wrote: post #2

Are patents a necessary evil?

Software patents may be what saves the field. Currently copyright as an IP protection for software has been rendered near meaningless by AI. If I can get one AI to reverse engineer Photoshop, and another to implement the produced spec, I have a copyright-clean version of Photoshop.

Patents protect the idea of a particular program. And in the post-AI world, it's the idea that holds the value, not the implementation. Implementations are cheap now.

Another alternative to preventing the entire software market from collapsing is to revive the Whelan v. Jaslow copyright standard, under which the abstract "structure, sequence, and organization" of a program is eligible for copyright. But programmers would bristle at that almost as much as robust patent protection for software. Until, that is, the money comes in with mouths to feed and mortgages to pay...

Re: A 25-year-old video patent just expired, ending a legal headache for Linux

#25

Post by _carbyau_ »

unfitted2545 wrote: post #2

Are patents a necessary evil?

A patent was meant to give a solo genius a way to treat their idea as something tangible, at a time when logistics was much slower and the world revolved around the physical.

Maybe they try to develop it themselves, maybe they sell the idea to a big corporation that has the resources to implement it. Either way, genius begets profit, and the world gets genius ideas... in theory anyway.

But a genuine idea back then needed a long time frame to actually do something with it. 20 years seemed reasonable at the time.

The world is less logistically constrained these days. Make it 5 years, no renewals.

Re: A 25-year-old video patent just expired, ending a legal headache for Linux

#26

Post by senshan »

nemomarx wrote: post #22
senshan wrote: post #20

Brazil? Why a Brazilian patent is of such a significant interest elsewhere?

I think this was the final patent on it that was valid anywhere, so now the status changes from "someone has a patent globally and we need to consider this" to "no one has a patent." If you're distributing something globally, even one market that still has the patent might stop you from default shipping a driver touching on it, or you might have to worry about court orders at least. It's hard to avoid jurisdictions o…

Right, but I thought it matters only if you sell something globally. Linux is distributed for free, so the burden of patent compliance is on the user, isn't it?

Re: A 25-year-old video patent just expired, ending a legal headache for Linux

#27

Post by nemomarx »

senshan wrote: post #26
nemomarx wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this was the final patent on it that was valid anywhere, so now the status changes from "someone has a patent globally and we need to consider this" to "no one has a patent." If you're distributing something globally, even one market that still has the patent might stop you from default shipping a driver touching on it, or you might have to worry about court orders at least. It's hard to avoid jurisdictions o…

Right, but I thought it matters only if you sell something globally. Linux is distributed for free, so the burden of patent compliance is on the user, isn't it?

Not a lawyer, but patent law refers to distribution too. It shouldn't matter if it's free or has a price if they can say you're distributing it to Brazilian users.

Re: A 25-year-old video patent just expired, ending a legal headache for Linux

#28

Post by foobar1962 »

anthk wrote: post #12
dlcarrier wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think they were entirely useless, but since then I've learned of many instances where a much better technology is developed because the first iteration is patented. For example, the Wright brothers biggest contribution to aviation was suing everyone using wing warping ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_brothers_patent_war ) which greatly advanced the adoption of the much more advanced ailerons. Software…

Now imagine what would happened if Euclid's books (and Newton's Principia) were Copyrighted until today.

That's confusing copyright with patents. The right to publish Newton's books is separate from being able to apply the knowledge which a patent protects. Note that math equations cannot be patented.

Re: A 25-year-old video patent just expired, ending a legal headache for Linux

#29

Post by [deleted] »

fluoridation wrote: post #10
dlcarrier wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think they were entirely useless, but since then I've learned of many instances where a much better technology is developed because the first iteration is patented. For example, the Wright brothers biggest contribution to aviation was suing everyone using wing warping ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_brothers_patent_war ) which greatly advanced the adoption of the much more advanced ailerons. Software…

Having people create new technology to avoid arbitrary legal hurdles instead of adopting existing and perfectly functional technology doesn't seem particularly efficient.

[deleted]

Re: A 25-year-old video patent just expired, ending a legal headache for Linux

#30

Post by [deleted] »

dlcarrier wrote: post #4
unfitted2545 wrote: post #2

Are patents a necessary evil?

I used to think they were entirely useless, but since then I've learned of many instances where a much better technology is developed because the first iteration is patented. For example, the Wright brothers biggest contribution to aviation was suing everyone using wing warping ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_brothers_patent_war ) which greatly advanced the adoption of the much more advanced ailerons. Software…

[deleted]
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