[dead]
Fixing a bricked Framework laptop
231–240 of 311 posts
Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop
#232Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not requiring a lawyer and not doing your due diligence aren't mutually exclusive. Just because you don't need a lawyer doesn't mean it's not in your best interest to get one. A lawyer isn't going to hallucinate case law that doesn't exist. And if THEIR AI does? THEY'RE on the hook, not you.
Then... double-check it yourself? The whole issue with hiring a lawyer in the first place is that defeats the point for the minuscule amount of claims being made.
So it's not worth it to file the claim then!! What's so hard to understand about that?
You need legal advice? You need a lawyer.
The lawyer costs more than what you've lost? Sorry, you're SOL then unless you want to piss off a judge and definitely not get the verdict you want.
Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop
#233Earlier quoted context omitted.
Right, really what Framework is saying is "we don't have a repair center that tries to re-flash BIOS." Neither do the other manufacturers, it's just too much of an in-the-weeds repair that's not worth their technicians' time. The fact that the RAM isn't soldered is such a huge benefit here as well. The most recent 7040 series board that sold on eBay with no RAM or SSD included only cost $269. Even if the author decid…
> If you brick your MacBook Pro and take it to an Apple repair center, they might just be throwing your board in the trash and replacing it, charging you $500, and you get your computer back "repaired." No one bricked their own laptop! They installed an update provided by the people that made the laptop! You bet your ass if installing software provided by apple bricked a macbook pro they would fix it for free. If the…
Apple absolutely does not fix bricked systems out of warranty, regardless of cause or fault. Certainly not two years removed from the warranty. They can, in very rare cases, get bricked by failed updates. It’s not totally unheard of.
“Unequivocally wrong” is highly debatable. You may feel that way but I don’t. I’m not defending anyone, I’m just providing a reality check on how things work when you buy a product from anyone.
I think the only thing framework did wrong is fail to provide a BIOS restore fallback function, which my desktop motherboard has, but not every laptop has a feature like this.
For one thing, any conclusion that a BIOS update failure is automatically Framework’s fault is a big jump to conclusions. A BIOS update has a small risk of failure with any device. Find me a motherboard manufacturer who will bail you out outside of the warranty period and I’ll do three cartwheels for you.
Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
IANAL but I'm pretty sure the authors of software are liable for damages to property their software might cause. Regardless of whether that is the case, legislation should be enacted to ensure this and make complaints/remuneration standard and easy to extract without the costs of taking a huge company to court.
I don't know. Out of curiosity I went to framework website, found the software license for their BIOS firmware and it says "Software distributed under the License is distributed AS IS basis, without WARRANTY OF ANY KIND..."
EU has a minimum warranty period (2 years?) on electrical goods. UK has Consumer Rights Act that amounts to a limited warranty for as long as a reasonable person would expect the item to last(!). These disclaimers are to specify that any language elsewhere that sounds like a warranty -- 'we take pride in our work and ensure every laptop meets exacting standards' -- has a silent addendum of 'not a warranty' so you can't actually win in court claiming "this didn't meet exacting standards" (ymmv).
Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop
#235Earlier quoted context omitted.
Small claims court is specifically oriented towards self-representation and not requiring hiring an attorney.
Not requiring a lawyer and not doing your due diligence aren't mutually exclusive. Just because you don't need a lawyer doesn't mean it's not in your best interest to get one. A lawyer isn't going to hallucinate case law that doesn't exist. And if THEIR AI does? THEY'RE on the hook, not you.
Yeah, I don't know about the whole "THEY'RE on the hook". When it gets to the point where you discover that your lawyer didn't do what they're supposed to do, you're deep in the hole.
A recent experience for me was a lawyer I hired just forwarding whatever their LLM service said. Granted it was for a commercial contract so doesn't require that much legal muscle, I imagine, but I had to go through multiple rounds of feedback just to point out problems in their amendments. And the response was something along the lines of "yeah that could be a problem, let me review it". It was quite a bit of money too but the experience left me without much confidence that having a lawyer review the contract was any better than just running it through any capable model myself.
Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop
#236Thanks for posting this. IT comes along at a perfect time for me. I am investigating linux laptops for one of my children, still in college. I have been looking for machines that come out of the box with linux and Framework was up there on the list. Others include Dell, Lenovo, ASUS, and Tuxedo.
I like the apparent upgrade ease of the Framework since I have a pile of old laptops, tablets and netbooks dating to late 1990's already. If I can find one that is long-term upgradable then that is a big plus.
I had almost convinced myself that Framework is the way to go with their hot-swappable ports and easily replaced internals.
I found Tuxedo not long ago. They seem to be a valid competitor in that space. I know they're a German company but I think they ship to the boondocks in Texas.
I read that BIOS recovery procedure and was reminded of all the times I had to flash and then recover on desktops or laptops and how much fun it wasn't. The fact that Framework treats you like a second-class citizen after the warranty expires is very valuable information in a case where your problem is caused by their recommended procedure. The hack of their partner company feels so relevant today when companies can still leave PII open in public datasets and suffer no consequences.
I will more strongly consider Dell and Tuxedo. I have long experience with Dell workstations and have found that even though a lot of their components like Mobos are proprietary formats requiring a Dell part to repair, that those parts are identifiable and generally available thru Dell or eBay.
I don't know enough about Tuxedo so if anyone has experience I would appreciate some insight. The use case for us is typical document authoring, programming in python with maybe Jupyter notebooks, complicated spreadsheets, photo documentation of field sites, and GIS work maintaining project map resources using ArcGIS most likely. Gaming is probably another option but it is not necessary for it to run top games though it does need decent graphics.
Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
"talk with an LLM to follow the correct steps" Or, if you need legal advice, go to a lawyer, not an LLM.
Consulting a lawyer would most likely be more expensive than whatever small claims compensation one would potentially be entitled to.
The $500 for one person's motherboard would not be the point.
Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop
#238Earlier quoted context omitted.
Then... double-check it yourself? The whole issue with hiring a lawyer in the first place is that defeats the point for the minuscule amount of claims being made.
So it's not worth it to file the claim then!! What's so hard to understand about that? You need legal advice? You need a lawyer. The lawyer costs more than what you've lost? Sorry, you're SOL then unless you want to piss off a judge and definitely not get the verdict you want.
Again, small claims court's entire reason for existence is that you do not need a lawyer so that you can pursue small claims like this easily.
Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop
#239I know that firmware (and software in general) has bugs. But I wonder why modern firmware for UEFI has to be so complex, that it needs updates on a regular basis. It would be nice to have a dead-simple hardware-initialisation system that doesn't need regular updates and that only has very limited attack surface.
The bootloader part of UEFI FW is quite straightforward. It requires updates due to vulnerabilities found in it and also to update certificates.
However modern FW of PC clones don't only contain a bootloader and a "simple" hardware initializer. Modern laptops have tens of sensors, power measuring parts, power controllers, completely remote management (Intel ME / AMD PSP), embedded controller code for fingerprint, embedded controller code for keyboard etc.
Companies ship a new product line every single year. This churn causes nothing but shitty FW to be developed. Moreover the component manufacturers also slightly change things every single year. That's why sleep sucks with PCs. That's why Fn shortcuts don't always work correctly. That's why batteries drain.
Everything is fixed in the 6 months to a year following the launch in PC industry. Then they start to work on the new model and only supply security updates.
Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop
#240Earlier quoted context omitted.
And consulting an LLM is a great way to find guides and get basic information on feasibility and effort of bringing a claim. LLMs are not a replacement for critical thinking, and they never have been.
Basic hallucinated information...
Just ask for citations by forcing the LLM to provide a verbatim quote from a linked source. If the LLM is incapable of doing so without hallucinating (cough, Gemini, cough) use a better one.
I don't get the LLM hate on this site sometimes. Just because it is easy to use an LLM irresponsibly doesn't mean all LLM usage has to be irresponsible.