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Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

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Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#331

Post by duplessitous »

Ydarbleoj wrote: post #295
duplessitous wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, it can. And by reserving that argument for when it is an actual problem, it strengths the overall position > There have been quite a lot of extremely-drawn-out lawsuits about them drawing more than claimed, dumping hot water into streams and damaging the ecosystem, and polluting other water sources by dumping dirty water into drinking water affecting areas. And I support strict EPA guidelines and heavy fees f…

Let's say a DC is being built in my area and I read how in some locations tap water is being polluted by these DCs. Wouldn't it be better to address that before it's built rather than after?

Supporting strict Zoning/EPA guidelines is me supporting the ability to address it before it is built. If you local tap water is being polluted by a data center, then we did not have strict Zoning/EPA guidelines. The fines exist because big corporations routinely lie and screw us. They are large penalties, not the way we prevent it from happening.

I am in full support to address it ahead of time and nothing I have said goes against this.

Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#332

Post by Forgeties79 »

wat10000 wrote: post #329
Forgeties79 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like this has to be reiterated every single AI discussion. Anytime someone points out something it enables, someone has to go “well that existed before” as if the scale is somehow 1) irrelevant and 2) not orders of magnitude larger. If you gave me one night, a pot of coffee, and few scruples, I could probably dump hundreds if not thousands of fake posts on the internet. Hundreds would easily break through and…

I think both sides of the debate are guilty of being too vague about it, probably because being more precise is pretty difficult. "Data centers already existed." "The scale is vastly larger than before." OK, this exchange contains zero new information. "Already existed" doesn't mean it's fine now, and "vastly larger" doesn't mean it's bad now. This DC buildout is massive? Yep. So massive that it merits substantial pu…

I’m not saying anything about opposition. I’m just saying I’m tired of “well people made unwanted porn before” or whatever as if the tools haven’t radially changed.

Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#333

Post by jacquesm »

ben_w wrote: post #326
jacquesm wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they aren't really people unless they could afford a DC of their own. When you view half the world or more as NPC then it becomes trivially easy to ignore the needs of others.

I fear you may be correct. On the other hand, how does that combine with his apparent narcissistic need to be seen? Is his need so simple it can be met with "line go up"?

Why would it have to be consistent? I've seen so many things be said and be done that do not mesh at al that this is really a very minor thing.

Think about it, the list is just about endless by now it's hard to tell the lies from the intentions and the character deficits.

Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#334

Post by rpdillon »

mawadev wrote: post #321
rpdillon wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not at all. The post being responded to completely failed to acknowledge any value brought by data centers to the general populous. That's disingenuous. To force the point: run me through the scenario where we turn off all the data centers. Consider how much more water we will have, how much less expensive electricity will be, and what other problems might arise.

[flagged]

What else might happen?

Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#335

Post by whimsicalism »

mediaman wrote: post #102
savanaly wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Complete tangent, but my impression is that one glass of wine per day is "fine", but you're still statistically better off in a non-trivial way by going down to zero. Not counting the benefits of course.... :)

To continue to take us off topic, there is actually pretty limited evidence that this is true. It is true that wine doesn't do anyone any good (unless you count it making people more social or something). But the effects of one glass a night is indistinguishable from zero. There are definitely statistically significant morbidity effects at 3. I've been shocked reading public health proclamations that "anything above…

i don't agree, i think you are just describing a measurement problem, we have a clear mechanistic understanding of why 'anything above zero' would be bad, and are able to measure this in sufficiently large populations for larger drinkers. the effect size is smaller and thus unmeasurable above the noise floor for one glass a night, but the mechanistic story is clear.

Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#336

Post by duplessitous »

Groxx wrote: post #173
duplessitous wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but misinformation is ineffective as it forces the conversation to revolve around the misinformation and not the topic we were attempting to discuss. If we need an example, we need look no further than this thread Beyond this, it is my opinion that people are cowards. The few who care about this issue enough to perform terroristic actions won't spur any sort of meaningful change in the general population becau…

Honestly, anything that gets people paying attention to stuff that has been building for decades is good in my book. I agree that'll be a much better end-state to be in, but is it the best right now ? ... idk. We're in an increasingly blatant "smash and grab" phase for major corporations right now, and they need to be stopped quickly .

Sure, but what is this comment if not a plea for someone else to do something? No one can live your ideals for you, if you think something should be done, you should do it, and quickly at that. If it is that urgent, why are you not doing anything?

Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#337

Post by epolanski »

benji-york wrote: post #203
epolanski wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's necessarily shady, but let's say that we're assisting at bets and capex spending we've never seen in history. Companies like Meta, Alphabet, etc that were drowning in cash flow and buying back their stock are now back at issuing shares, creating a huge number of SPVs, issuing debt, etc. There's a gigantic spending spirale with no signs of ending. Nvidia is financing companies to buy its own hardwar…

> even if every adult on the planet spent 250$ on AI per year this would still not cover anywhere near what's being invested. Your math does not make sense. That's something like $1.5 trillion every year. That's no where near what is being spent in AI hardware buildouts on an annual basis.

1. The estimates, for data center build outs in 2026 alone, in US alone, and even limiting just to the hyperscalers + oracle is in the 600 to 800 billions range.

And I'm ignoring the likes of Nvidia building their owns and smaller (but still huge) outside the biggest players. Or the comparably smaller, yet still multi billions spent in the rest of the world.

2. That excludes salaries, research, taxes, cost of running the datacenters themselves, etc.

In fact several estimates are pointing out that global annual spending on AI better be in the range of 3T$ range (that's almost a 1'000 $ / year per every adult in the world) or this is all going bust.

The math that does not make sense is to expect such a gargantuan spending to have any meaningful monetary return.

Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#338

Post by chasd00 »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #328
sjoedev wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’re building data centers in the U.S. at an unprecedented and increasing rate [1]. Is it so hard to imagine that something which was fine at one scale may begin to cause issues at some massively higher scale? If I drink one glass of wine per day, it’s probably fine. If I drink three bottles per day, I’m gonna start having problems. [1] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/monthly-spending-data-cen...

One thing I never see pushback about: Northern Virginia has the highest density of data centers in the United States. Google tells me there are over 600 data centers in Virginia (that is nuts!). This build-out has been happening for more than 25 years. Until very recently, I have not heard any pushback from people in that area. What am I missing?

> What am I missing?

nation states trying to slow progress. I was pretty perplexed as well, now we're concerned about data centers? They're everywhere already.

Oh wait, it's a FUD campaign sewn by competing nations using social media so they can, hopefully, catch up. That makes a lot more sense.

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/07/09/business/china-russia-ai-...

Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#339

Post by missedthecue »

dylan604 wrote: post #280
lenerdenator wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, to a point. I honestly don't get why, for example, we're building anything that requires a lot of water in Arizona.

Why are we growing crops that depend on monsoon amounts of water in the desert? Because people with money and power have decided that's what they want to do.

The explanation has never made intuitive sense to me and the political power of almond and alfalfa farmers continues to elude me. Yes, almond farmers have money but Larry Ellison, Musk, and Sergey Brin have a shitload more. As do non-tech industries like Californian real estate developers. California has ~40 billionaires from real estate alone. That industry, and tech, and manufacturing, and everyone else is also competing for water supply.

What makes almond farmers so good at procuring and maintaining political influence?

Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#340

Post by heylook »

rpdillon wrote: post #299
Ydarbleoj wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are engaging in the "but you participate in society" fallacy. One can critique systems they are still interacting with, to suggest otherwise is just so incredibly lazy.

Not at all. The post being responded to completely failed to acknowledge any value brought by data centers to the general populous. That's disingenuous. To force the point: run me through the scenario where we turn off all the data centers. Consider how much more water we will have, how much less expensive electricity will be, and what other problems might arise.

They also didn't say whether or not they like electric lightbulbs. Or hot showers. Or clothes. Or the wheel.
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