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Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

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Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#181

Post by Larrikin »

dwoldrich wrote: post #35

I cannot figure out if this data center panic is legit or trumped up. There are legitimate nation-state and political entities that would love to create pressure for degrowth in this area. And, pollution and natural resources are a concern, yes, fine, sure. NIMBY happens, I get it ... *BUT*, we've been building huge data centers for decades and they are minuscule compared to the size of the earth. My skeptic meter ma…

The data centers went up in rural areas that voted people in that allowed the deregulation. I really did not care about their plight. I use the LLM models all the time and hoped prices would go down.

But then the data centers did not pay for their electricity infrastructure and made everyone's electric bills go up. I made my home more energy efficient and am using less electricity than last year but my bill is higher. I am now against them. As far as I can tell this is happening in every state that has allowed them.

If they fix this and my electric bill goes back down, they can buzz all they want in the country side.

Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#182

Post by qarl2 »

stryan wrote: post #178
qarl2 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they generally provide minimal benefits to the local communities Data centers pay Loudoun County, Virginia $26 in taxes for every $1 in services they consume - nearly $1.3 billion, 45% of the county's budget - which is why Loudoun homeowners pay the lowest property tax rate in Northern Virginia. https://www.loudoun.gov/faq.aspx?TID=241

Loudoun County is a very rich part of NOVA and was able to fight for those concessions, as well as being in a very desirable part of the country for those DC's to built in (close to major infrastructure but still undeveloped at the time) so they had a better position to argue from. Plus, as I mentioned in another comment, while Loundoun County gets the tax benefits the whole area is affected by the DC's power consump…

Yes. See my other comment about how Oregon was able to solve the power problem. The residents of Oregon will be paying LOWER prices than before the data centers.

The data center problem seems to be merely a government corruption problem. Which is a problem, of course, but not limited to data centers.

Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#183

Post by platevoltage »

metalsiliconYT wrote: post #30
ck2 wrote: post #16

so now we are speed-running global warming there are now record setting gas turbine sales instead of solar/nuclear * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gk8ziQCWK1w and for what? so we can have totally useless "AI" customer service agents where you still have to demand to talk to a human to properly get a problem solved

[flagged]

If only there were energy sources that didn't involve burning anything. Perhaps that nuclear reaction in the sky that wakes us up every day?

Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#184

Post by joaovnunes »

mediaman wrote: post #102
savanaly wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Complete tangent, but my impression is that one glass of wine per day is "fine", but you're still statistically better off in a non-trivial way by going down to zero. Not counting the benefits of course.... :)

To continue to take us off topic, there is actually pretty limited evidence that this is true. It is true that wine doesn't do anyone any good (unless you count it making people more social or something). But the effects of one glass a night is indistinguishable from zero. There are definitely statistically significant morbidity effects at 3. I've been shocked reading public health proclamations that "anything above…

isn't one glass a night already lack of moderation? by drinking a glass a night, or even weekly such as every friday night you're creating habit and dependency.

Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#185

Post by robotresearcher »

john_strinlai wrote: post #116
drfloyd51 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait… large customers move in and your rate goes up? Forget about it. These AI companies could really help themselves by subsidizing local rates. Imagine if a large AI datacenter moved in AND your rate dropped by $70! Everyone would be singing their praises.

> Wait… large customers move in and your rate goes up? demand goes up + supply remains steady = price goes up.

Why should supply stay steady?

You want to build an enormous energy sink, you should contribute to increasing the local supply!

Putting up everyone’s prices is a hard impact on a community.

Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#186

Post by benji-york »

john_strinlai wrote: post #116
drfloyd51 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait… large customers move in and your rate goes up? Forget about it. These AI companies could really help themselves by subsidizing local rates. Imagine if a large AI datacenter moved in AND your rate dropped by $70! Everyone would be singing their praises.

> Wait… large customers move in and your rate goes up? demand goes up + supply remains steady = price goes up.

In the short term (assuming no point fixes help soften the shock).

Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#187

Post by xnx »

platevoltage wrote: post #179
xnx wrote: post #50

Now compare to how much an asphalt parking lot raises temperatures.

Eagerly awaiting your report.

During peak sunlight conditions, a standard black asphalt surface will readily absorb solar radiation, sending its surface temperature to 150°F–190°F . A clean white roof reflects up to 80% of sunlight, and topping out at around 95°F–115°F. (https://sentryroof.com/news/how-hot-does-your-commercial-roo...)

Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#188

Post by smallerize »

dwoldrich wrote: post #35

I cannot figure out if this data center panic is legit or trumped up. There are legitimate nation-state and political entities that would love to create pressure for degrowth in this area. And, pollution and natural resources are a concern, yes, fine, sure. NIMBY happens, I get it ... *BUT*, we've been building huge data centers for decades and they are minuscule compared to the size of the earth. My skeptic meter ma…

The article isn't about warming the planet. So you're the one trumping up something that isn't there.

Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#189

Post by AnthonyMouse »

mediaman wrote: post #123
stryan wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of it's a panic, but I'm leaning towards many of the concerns being true or at least partially true due to the sheer scale of the construction. The figures I've been seeing are something like half of all current private construction projects are data center related these days and it's the biggest single sector of construction in terms of money spent. It's also a lot easier to protest data centers then AI compani…

What I don't understand is why communities want to block the data centers. Just make them pay! Your electricity price shouldn't go up because of them. So just make a rate card for data centers that ensures the burden doesn't fall on residents. That's what Oregon started doing, and residents' electricity prices actually started falling, because the fixed costs of energy production were being spread across more kilowat…

> So just make a rate card for data centers that ensures the burden doesn't fall on residents.

This is actually what happens in most places. It's even what happens in many cases when the data centers are given a discount, because the "amortize fixed costs over more units of generation" thing still happens.

Higher rates are essentially a time lag. You want to add load to the grid today but it will take five years to add that much new generation and in the meantime the only way to make a higher demand curve match up with the existing supply curve is at a temporarily higher price.

You could raise the price of electricity on only the data center by so much that it removes the increase in demand, but what that actually means is not building it there, and then it also isn't there after generation catches up and the local power company would have been able to spread their fixed costs over more units.

> I've also seen counties offer tax incentives. Why? Just have them pay property tax.

Data centers are asset dense. A large one would have a value of e.g. a billion dollars while the neighboring plot of land has an assessment value of a million dollars. That's why they offer tax incentives -- a tenth of the rate on 1000 times the assessment value is a huge revenue win over the 100% of nothing you get if they build it somewhere else.

Or to put it another way, it allows the towns with a higher mill rate to keep themselves in the running instead of being excluded from the outset.

Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#190

Post by john_strinlai »

robotresearcher wrote: post #185
john_strinlai wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wait… large customers move in and your rate goes up? demand goes up + supply remains steady = price goes up.

Why should supply stay steady? You want to build an enormous energy sink, you should contribute to increasing the local supply! Putting up everyone’s prices is a hard impact on a community.

>Why should supply stay steady?

i'm not saying it should. but it takes time to bring new power generation online.

>You want to build an enormous energy sink, you should contribute to increasing the local supply!

agreed

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