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Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

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Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#161

Post by jszymborski »

gonzalohm wrote: post #153
jszymborski wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL but I'm pretty sure the authors of software are liable for damages to property their software might cause. Regardless of whether that is the case, legislation should be enacted to ensure this and make complaints/remuneration standard and easy to extract without the costs of taking a huge company to court.

I don't know. Out of curiosity I went to framework website, found the software license for their BIOS firmware and it says "Software distributed under the License is distributed AS IS basis, without WARRANTY OF ANY KIND..."

Again, IANAL, but you can't disclaim certain liabilities.

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#163

Post by dvdkon »

It's a shame Framework don't offer support for component-level repairs, but sadly neither do other laptop manufacturers, if you don't count leaked resources. They could certainly do better, but I wouldn't see it as a reason to switch to e.g. ThinkPads.

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#164

Post by mchristen »

reedlaw wrote: post #132

I'm on my third mainboard trying to combat what seems to be an AMD platform issue that causes random freeze-then-reset events. It doesn't just affect Framework. If you search AMD Data Fabric Sync Flood you'll find a lot of discussion across various forums. The open Framework issue is: https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/SoftwareFirmwareIssueTr...

I keep on having issues with my WD SN850 dropping offline and coming back R/O but it still fails to produce any reads and my system still crashes. I've applied all the pcie power management fixes on the kernel command line and still having problems. That sounds similar to what you describe. It starts off with vscode disappearing, then UI locks, and then it dumps me to a virtual console spitting kernel errors for a bit.

The nvme drive itself reports no media errors so I really do think it's a system side problem with the pcie controllers...

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#165

Post by myself248 »

rincebrain wrote: post #158
myself248 wrote: post #149

I also managed to brick a motherboard, though mine was a Supermicro, by missing a line in the README that tells you to move some hardware jumpers on the board before applying the flash. I found one jumper, but the other one was in another corner of the board, and the README says "if you have both, move both", so I thought I just had a board with only one jumper. Notably, the flash process itself does not check for th…

My understanding is that you can usually flash the BIOS from the BMC even if the BIOS is fucked, though it's a paid feature upgrade (though I think someone might have cracked the algorithm on older boards). At least, it has been the case on several boards of mine, including an X10SDV which bricked itself, as far as I can tell, just from bad luck somehow.

I tried the BMC route, it didn't help.

As far as I can tell, the jumper dance was to enable the main BIOS to use the Management Engine controller to perform some other part of the flash, which would ordinarily be locked out with the jumpers in their normal position. But now that it's tried and failed, it won't try again, maybe?

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#166

Post by craftkiller »

pudgywalsh wrote: post #110
craftkiller wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But in that situation, you know the damage _wont_ be to the USB ports on the motherboard. The motherboard is screwed to the case, and the expansion cards are locked to the case, so they won't move relative to each other. You expansion card might get damaged by the initial tripping over the cord, and some other parts might get damaged from the fall, but you can trivially buy first-party replacement parts for anything…

Apple solved this with a $1 internal flex-circuit vs a fist-sized external module.

That specific issue, but they didn't get the other benefit of expansion cards: being able to "change" the ports on your laptop without needing some external dongle. Also, your fists must be tiny.

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#167

Post by jakzurr »

throwuxiytayq wrote: post #154
anthonj wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see your point, but what i'm talking about is the company generating a strong incentive to people to buy upgrades or replacements. This whole submission is about a user going extra length to recover a perfectly functioning main board (with price between 400 and 800 eur depending on model) after an official update went wrong and was suggested to buy a new one. Mind that I am planning to buy one as well, so I don't h…

> a perfectly functioning main board If I understand correctly, the problem was that the board was the exact opposite of that. The post title uses the phrase “bricked”. I agree that FWs handling was pretty bad, but then again, what exactly is the proposed ideal-but-realistic solution they should have offered here?

Seriously?

ASUS CrashFree BIOS 3 utility. That's from a 10-year-old MB. Probably a few other examples.

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#169

Post by craftkiller »

artisinal wrote: post #123
craftkiller wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ports on the motherboard are soldered, but you don't use them directly. You attach "expansion cards" which slide into a slot on the laptop case which locks them in place. So those ports seldom see any forces applied to them. All your day-to-day wear (plugging/unplugging, twisting, yanking) is going to be on the port on the expansion card which you can replace for $10. It's basically like a daughter board that is…

It’s a €20 / 5 minute fix on the MacBook to swap out the USB daughterboard. The solution framework uses takes up a lot of space and doesn’t really help you if you short out the port or drop the laptop on its side.

As far as I can tell, Apple doesn't sell the daughterboards so you have to go spelunking for salvaged parts with your macbook. I can get all my first-party brand-new replacement parts at https://frame.work/marketplace .

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#170

Post by anthonj »

throwuxiytayq wrote: post #154
anthonj wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see your point, but what i'm talking about is the company generating a strong incentive to people to buy upgrades or replacements. This whole submission is about a user going extra length to recover a perfectly functioning main board (with price between 400 and 800 eur depending on model) after an official update went wrong and was suggested to buy a new one. Mind that I am planning to buy one as well, so I don't h…

> a perfectly functioning main board If I understand correctly, the problem was that the board was the exact opposite of that. The post title uses the phrase “bricked”. I agree that FWs handling was pretty bad, but then again, what exactly is the proposed ideal-but-realistic solution they should have offered here?

"Bricked" is a bad term for system without a proper software/firmware update path. A LOT could have been done here to improve "repairability" (with quotes, because this is a software issue on a perfectly fine mainboard).

A/B updates automatically recovering the bios is case of failed update, recovery from usb in case that somehow fails as well (InsydeH2O call it "crisis mode" I think). Lenovo support both. Dell too afaik. This is very much realistic to have, and I would expect it from a decent product. A computer without this feature is pretty much designed to fail more easily.

If for some very weird reason framework was unable to offer this, then at very least they could have placed a header on the board with flashing instructions on the website, instead of advising to buy new hardware.

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