Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers • Hacker News Board

Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#131

Post by shagie » Tue, Aug 18, 2026, 6:51 PM UTC

api wrote: post #62

dwoldrich wrote: post #35

I cannot figure out if this data center panic is legit or trumped up. There are legitimate nation-state and political entities that would love to create pressure for degrowth in this area. And, pollution and natural resources are a concern, yes, fine, sure. NIMBY happens, I get it ... *BUT*, we've been building huge data centers for decades and they are minuscule compared to the size of the earth. My skeptic meter ma…

I've done a bit of research into it, and I think it's a mix. The energy thing is exaggerated. Want to compensate for a week of heavy AI coding usage? If you drive to work, telecommute for one day. Skip one long-distance DoorDash order. Cars use tons of energy, a lot more per-user than the fraction of data center capacity you're using with your AI stuff. A burrito on DoorDash delivered using an average MPG gas car use…

> The energy thing is exaggerated.

https://www.wpr.org/news/wisconsin-energy-demand-to-rise-dri...

> Wisconsin energy demand to rise 40 percent by 2032, driven by data centers, draft report finds

> Draft report: Over 72% of peak electricity load is 'associated with three active data center developments'

https://www.wpr.org/news/we-energies-add-3gw-electric-grid-d...

https://www.cleanwisconsin.org/wisconsin-ai-data-center-powe...

> Two AI Data Centers Require More Energy Than All Wisconsin Homes Combined: Just two AI data center projects — the Microsoft data center in Mt. Pleasant and Vantage data center in Port Washington — will require a combined 3.9 gigawatts (GW) of electric power, which is enough energy to power 4.3 million Wisconsin homes. There are only 2.8 million housing units in the entire state.

Compare with the city of Los Angeles - https://www.ladwp.com/who-we-are/power-system

> In fiscal year 2023-24, we supplied more than 20,749 gigawatt-hours (GWh) of power for more than 1.6 million electric service customers, including nearly 6,000 in the Owens Valley.

That's an average of 2.3 GW over the year.

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> The water thing is region-specific and where is a problem it's due to incompetent or corrupt goveranance. Bottom line is that if a data center is using too much water, it means they're not paying enough for that water.

https://www.opb.org/article/2026/01/15/as-googles-water-dema...

> When Google purchased a defunct aluminum smelter in The Dalles, it also acquired the right to pump massive amounts of water from underground — up to 3.88 million gallons a day. That’s almost as much water as the entire city averaged per day in 2024.

> The corporation transferred those water rights to the city in 2021, Bentz noted, allowing The Dalles to pump more water from underground. The city only obtained part, not all, of the former smelter’s water rights, Mays said after OPB’s story published.

It's the rights to pump the water. Google can pump up to 3.88 million gallons per day and the city can't bill them a penny for that. Also, because it's an old claim, it's likely more senior to other water rights.

https://www.oregon.gov/owrd/programs/waterrights/pages/defau...

Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#132

Post by yieldcrv » Tue, Aug 18, 2026, 6:51 PM UTC

dwoldrich wrote: post #35

I cannot figure out if this data center panic is legit or trumped up. There are legitimate nation-state and political entities that would love to create pressure for degrowth in this area. And, pollution and natural resources are a concern, yes, fine, sure. NIMBY happens, I get it ... *BUT*, we've been building huge data centers for decades and they are minuscule compared to the size of the earth. My skeptic meter ma…

It’s not so binary

Basically, anything people decide not to like is targeted for its climate impact

Some of that targeting is valid and points out optimizations that can be done

They want you to ignore their air conditioning and fridge’s greater relative impact, because the thing they dont like has “no use” in comparison to the thing they do like. They also believe that any power use is easily transportable to the use they do like, which is usually false.

But there are configurations of data centers with less environmental impact, which should become ubiquitous

Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#133

Post by trollbridge » Tue, Aug 18, 2026, 6:51 PM UTC

ndriscoll wrote: post #114

varenc wrote: post #34

Using energy always raises nearby temperatures since all energy becomes heat. If any facility is using 36 MW of electricity, then 36 MW of heat is going to be entering the environment somewhere. Though I think what's interesting here is that the effects of this extra heat is highly localized to urban areas. But just trying to say this isn't data center specific. A steel mill with 36MW of electric arc furnaces is goin…

Not necessarily; a building satisfied by its own rooftop solar should be roughly heat neutral since that energy was already there. The problem is with the power density these buildings imply, requiring energy movement. Everyone could run Qwen 3.8 27B at home with a solar panel and it'd make no difference. Companies could run their traditional servers on-site at their offices, etc.

Not quite. If the roof were highly reflective and it's a clear sky, it would reflect sunlight (including infrared) back into space. Of course, we're talking about such minimal levels of power here compared to, say, heating a house in the winter that it's irrelevant.

It needs around 300 W to run Qwen 3.8-27b here, which is roughly eqivalent to me as a human walking around and doing basically anything other than sitting still.

Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#134

Post by ebiederm » Tue, Aug 18, 2026, 6:51 PM UTC

dwoldrich wrote: post #35

I cannot figure out if this data center panic is legit or trumped up. There are legitimate nation-state and political entities that would love to create pressure for degrowth in this area. And, pollution and natural resources are a concern, yes, fine, sure. NIMBY happens, I get it ... *BUT*, we've been building huge data centers for decades and they are minuscule compared to the size of the earth. My skeptic meter ma…

Part of the problem is AI datacenters make bad neighbors. Because they are in such a rush to become operational they cut corners.

Instead of AC they use swamp coolers draining aquifers and thus wells of the neighbors.

Instead of using new power plants (AKA using renewables as most new plants do, and all old datacenters did). They either hook up to the grid and jack up everyones electric prices or use generators because they can't be bothered to wait for a grid connection.

All of which is to say while on the grand scale they may be fine. Locally they can be unpleasant to have in your back yard.

If the LLM datacenter builders and operators weren't cutting corners and rushing and doing everything they can to be good neighbors. There would be much less push back.

I say this as someone with 2 huge pre-AI datacenters in my town that have been fine.

Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#135

Post by doctoboggan » Tue, Aug 18, 2026, 6:52 PM UTC

atleastoptimal wrote: post #25

The whole data center heat/water thing is like not even in the top 100 risks/issues related to AI, but it's all people seem to care about. Why is that?

Its a proxy fight - the data centers represent AI in most peoples mind, and any animosity towards a nebulous idea of "AI" can be redirected to these concrete, physical data centers.

All that being said, if your actual goal was to hinder AI growth in some way, slowing the data center buildout in the US would probably work towards that end reasonably well.

Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#136

Post by LastTrain » Tue, Aug 18, 2026, 6:52 PM UTC

dwoldrich wrote: post #35

I cannot figure out if this data center panic is legit or trumped up. There are legitimate nation-state and political entities that would love to create pressure for degrowth in this area. And, pollution and natural resources are a concern, yes, fine, sure. NIMBY happens, I get it ... *BUT*, we've been building huge data centers for decades and they are minuscule compared to the size of the earth. My skeptic meter ma…

> There are legitimate nation-state and political entities that would love to create pressure for degrowth in this area.

This is the trumped up rhetoric you speak of.

Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#137

Post by WarmWash » Tue, Aug 18, 2026, 6:52 PM UTC

sjoedev wrote: post #65

dwoldrich wrote: post #35

I cannot figure out if this data center panic is legit or trumped up. There are legitimate nation-state and political entities that would love to create pressure for degrowth in this area. And, pollution and natural resources are a concern, yes, fine, sure. NIMBY happens, I get it ... *BUT*, we've been building huge data centers for decades and they are minuscule compared to the size of the earth. My skeptic meter ma…

We’re building data centers in the U.S. at an unprecedented and increasing rate [1]. Is it so hard to imagine that something which was fine at one scale may begin to cause issues at some massively higher scale? If I drink one glass of wine per day, it’s probably fine. If I drink three bottles per day, I’m gonna start having problems. [1] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/monthly-spending-data-cen...

Yeah, but when we account for that scale, and look at resource usage, datacenters aren't topping the charts, or even really getting in the top 5, for anything.

You have people who eat meat at every meal losing their mind over water usage and people who set their AC to 68 panicking over energy usage.

Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#138

Post by bad_username » Tue, Aug 18, 2026, 6:52 PM UTC

atleastoptimal wrote: post #25

The whole data center heat/water thing is like not even in the top 100 risks/issues related to AI, but it's all people seem to care about. Why is that?

> it's all people seem to care about.

You shouldn't try to assess what people care about from what you see in the media, including social media. Focused thought and gigantic resources go into shaping the public perception of reality through media.

Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#139

Post by harimau777 » Tue, Aug 18, 2026, 6:52 PM UTC

nomel wrote: post #92

dgellow wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI inference and training GPUs require way, way more power than anything manufactured before. Like, between 2020 and 2026 we went from ~400W for an A100 to ~1400W for an NVIDIA B300. And you cannot make that happen without changing the datacenter itself. More noise, way more complicated cooling setup, new power sources, etc. Not all datacenters are created equal. The financing for datacenters is also very shady and i…

> The financing for datacenters is also very shady and its own can of worms Could you expand on that?

I don't necessarily know what the parent was referring to, but I can see two this:

Megacorps often get significant tax breaks to build AI in a community.

Megacorps advertise that datacenters will create jobs but don't mention that most of those jobs will disappear once construction is finished.

Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#140

Post by EdiX » Tue, Aug 18, 2026, 6:52 PM UTC

compass_copium wrote: post #59

dwoldrich wrote: post #35

I cannot figure out if this data center panic is legit or trumped up. There are legitimate nation-state and political entities that would love to create pressure for degrowth in this area. And, pollution and natural resources are a concern, yes, fine, sure. NIMBY happens, I get it ... *BUT*, we've been building huge data centers for decades and they are minuscule compared to the size of the earth. My skeptic meter ma…

I'm a hobbyist IT enthusiast, not a professional computer guy, but from my point of view there's a big difference between a bunch of servers hosting something people want, like Netflix, and a warehouse full of GPUs running around the clock to make Lobster Jesus or whatever. It's also a proxy for people's feelings on AI--essentially the only way people have to fight back against the new technology that makes eternal g…

> there's a big difference between a bunch of servers hosting something people want, like Netflix, and a warehouse full of GPUs running around the clock to make Lobster Jesus or whatever.

ChatGPT has been the most downloaded app every month for a year and a half.