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Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

quantum5.ca

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Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#151

Post by quantum5 »

yellowapple wrote: post #146
FfejL wrote: post #6

Was seriously considering getting a Framework to replace my aging ASUS. Upgrade- and repair-ability were my main motivations. But now I'm reconsidering. Not standing behind their own BIOS update is pretty horrible.

Any other laptop is going to have the same risk of a failed BIOS flash, and will likely require the same degree of manual intervention to fix. That the replacement process entails swapping (and potentially upgrading, as I did in this exact situation with my FW16) just the motherboard instead of the entire laptop is a strict improvement. That said, I agree with the article that a company like Framework with an ostensi…

> Any other laptop is going to have the same risk of a failed BIOS flash, and will likely require the same degree of manual intervention to fix.

What I found from my research while writing the post is that both Dell and HP have BIOS recovery options without having to open the laptop at all, so that's not quite true. I think there's more Framework could have done here to make this a much less painful experience.

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#152

Post by amstan »

> Framework chose to not provide a header for flashing the BIOS, which, when combined with issue #3, forced the use of pogo pins.

Op probably missed https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/FrameworkDebugger#jspi. Though, the connector is not populated for cost reasons.

Otherwise, I agree with the author, this is a pain.

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#153

Post by gonzalohm »

jszymborski wrote: post #134
gonzalohm wrote: post #2

A bit off-topic, but kind of relevant. I firmly believe that if installing custom firmware voids the warranty of a device, installing official updates should extend the warranty. I'm tired of sloppy updates or change of behavior that mess with how I use MY device. At this point, I'm convinced Google is doing this on purpose. My Google TV has become slow since the Gemini update, which I wasn't asked if I wanted it. My…

IANAL but I'm pretty sure the authors of software are liable for damages to property their software might cause. Regardless of whether that is the case, legislation should be enacted to ensure this and make complaints/remuneration standard and easy to extract without the costs of taking a huge company to court.

I don't know. Out of curiosity I went to framework website, found the software license for their BIOS firmware and it says "Software distributed under the License is distributed AS IS basis, without WARRANTY OF ANY KIND..."

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#154

Post by throwuxiytayq »

anthonj wrote: post #88
throwuxiytayq wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Manufacturer forces you to throw away previous device and buy a new one: it's a conspiracy to make money Manufacturer lets you replace each part separately: it's a conspiracy to make money

I see your point, but what i'm talking about is the company generating a strong incentive to people to buy upgrades or replacements. This whole submission is about a user going extra length to recover a perfectly functioning main board (with price between 400 and 800 eur depending on model) after an official update went wrong and was suggested to buy a new one. Mind that I am planning to buy one as well, so I don't h…

> a perfectly functioning main board

If I understand correctly, the problem was that the board was the exact opposite of that. The post title uses the phrase “bricked”.

I agree that FWs handling was pretty bad, but then again, what exactly is the proposed ideal-but-realistic solution they should have offered here?

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#155

Post by [deleted] »

quantum5 wrote: post #144
alt227 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When your laptop dies what would you prefer, to be able to buy the specific broken part easily and replace it yourself or be forced to buy an entire new laptop?

But the problem isn't buying the specific broken part here? I would have gladly replaced the BIOS chip if they made it socketed or something, but what Framework support told me is to throw away the perfectly working CPU and buy a new one because it happened to be soldered to the same board as the BIOS chip with incorrect data.

[deleted]

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#156

Post by [deleted] »

cschep wrote: post #138
alt227 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When your laptop dies what would you prefer, to be able to buy the specific broken part easily and replace it yourself or be forced to buy an entire new laptop?

I expect an optional update to not brick my laptop, and if it does, the company to fully replace it because they own the fact that they fucked up. Completely unrelated: Yes! I do prefer to be able to replace specific broken parts when they die. That sure doesn't apply to this situation though does it?

[deleted]

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#157

Post by quantum5 »

amstan wrote: post #152

> Framework chose to not provide a header for flashing the BIOS, which, when combined with issue #3, forced the use of pogo pins. Op probably missed https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/FrameworkDebugger#jspi . Though, the connector is not populated for cost reasons. Otherwise, I agree with the author, this is a pain.

Original author here:

Thanks for linking the documentation! To be clear, when I wrote "header", I meant something with a connector that can be easily used for this purpose. Soldering on the connector is probably more difficult than the pogo pins that I used.

I also can't help but notice the linked connector is less than $1 in bulk on DigiKey and probably cheaper if ordered at Framework's scale.

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#158

Post by rincebrain »

myself248 wrote: post #149

I also managed to brick a motherboard, though mine was a Supermicro, by missing a line in the README that tells you to move some hardware jumpers on the board before applying the flash. I found one jumper, but the other one was in another corner of the board, and the README says "if you have both, move both", so I thought I just had a board with only one jumper. Notably, the flash process itself does not check for th…

My understanding is that you can usually flash the BIOS from the BMC even if the BIOS is fucked, though it's a paid feature upgrade (though I think someone might have cracked the algorithm on older boards).

At least, it has been the case on several boards of mine, including an X10SDV which bricked itself, as far as I can tell, just from bad luck somehow.

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#159

Post by tristor »

I've had some rough moments with my Framework 13, but overall I appreciate it because when something like this happens you have a way out other than binning the entire laptop. I agree with the author that Framework should have a better answer than buying a new motherboard, /but/ at least you can buy a new motherboard and move all the components over. Realistically, any >$1000 computing device should have the ability to boot BIOS from USB to provide a fallback if the BIOS is damaged, this is pretty standard on most high-end motherboards, and I think its a fair expectation from Framework. Hopefully they will see this thread on HN and make changes to the product in the future to improve this.

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#160

Post by rincebrain »

alt227 wrote: post #140
1saadcodes wrote: post #102

I really like what Framework is trying to do but this story is very hard to ignore. If a failed BIOS update can brick the machine, and the official solution is a CA$500+ motherboard (that's about $350+ USD I belieive), there's still a pretty big gap between being modular and being truly repairable Not to mention there are no "alternatives" that you can look into to purchase these replacements. You are essentially jus…

> a failed BIOS update can brick the machine As far as I am aware a failed bios/firmware update on any device can cause it to brick, thats why they always come with massive warnings everywhere. I personally do not just do bios updates because some OEM marketing said so. The old saying does me well, "If it aint broke dont fix it"

Some nicer boards have redundant copies of the BIOS so if you fuck up the update, it boots the old one.

Various enterprise boards with BMCs can flash the BIOS from the BMC even if the BIOS is fucked.

You might even be able to do that with Intel AMT, but I've never had occasion to try.

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