Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers • Hacker News Board

Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#71

Post by nemomarx » Tue, Aug 18, 2026, 6:28 PM UTC

api wrote: post #62

dwoldrich wrote: post #35

I cannot figure out if this data center panic is legit or trumped up. There are legitimate nation-state and political entities that would love to create pressure for degrowth in this area. And, pollution and natural resources are a concern, yes, fine, sure. NIMBY happens, I get it ... *BUT*, we've been building huge data centers for decades and they are minuscule compared to the size of the earth. My skeptic meter ma…

I've done a bit of research into it, and I think it's a mix. The energy thing is exaggerated. Want to compensate for a week of heavy AI coding usage? If you drive to work, telecommute for one day. Skip one long-distance DoorDash order. Cars use tons of energy, a lot more per-user than the fraction of data center capacity you're using with your AI stuff. A burrito on DoorDash delivered using an average MPG gas car use…

It's gotta be costs, right? Everyone wants this done fast and at large scale, so they're going for any sites with existing large electrical connections I assume.

Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#72

Post by duplessitous » Tue, Aug 18, 2026, 6:29 PM UTC

holdupagain wrote: post #57

duplessitous wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but even then, why would we not discuss noise pollution? The water figure folks cite is wildly manipulated, it really confuses me why a known piece of misinformation is so routinely used. Water usage for global data center cooling is under 30B gallons of water. You only get to the 300B number by including the estimated water required for the power generation. Data centers are the only technology where we inclu…

"residential zoning" looks like an intentional misunderstanding of the problem. Putting one outside of "residential zoning" surely isn't a problem even if it robs an entire residential zone of power, right? Or then governments can't just re-allocate residential zones to industrial zones to get those juicy deals, right? The way you're using language here is putting the problem so close to the edge that abuse, ignoring…

> Or then governments can't just re-allocate residential zones to industrial zones to get those juicy deals, right?

Which is why we need laws around where data centers can and cannot be built. Something I clearly alluded to in my first comment. Do you want to make up things I never said such that you can make some snarky comment and feel good about yourself or have a real conversation? If it is the former, fuck off.

Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#73

Post by nemomarx » Tue, Aug 18, 2026, 6:30 PM UTC

duplessitous wrote: post #33

tintor wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because these new data centers were built near people's homes.

Right, but even then, why would we not discuss noise pollution? The water figure folks cite is wildly manipulated, it really confuses me why a known piece of misinformation is so routinely used. Water usage for global data center cooling is under 30B gallons of water. You only get to the 300B number by including the estimated water required for the power generation. Data centers are the only technology where we inclu…

I've seen lots of talk about noise pollution with them? There's infrasound concerns and etc. No idea how real that impact is, but it's apparently measurable for a few miles away.

It mostly needs zoning as you say and maybe require each project put down a bond to supply a power plant expansion / new plant that covers their projected energy uses, imo. That sorts out a lot of issues. Maybe put some kinda tax on them and use it to pay for local infrastructure or schools for PR too

Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#74

Post by ck2 » Tue, Aug 18, 2026, 6:30 PM UTC

ipsum2 wrote: post #42

ck2 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how about the non-stop methane burnoff for months ("flare") from all the oil fracking fields in the US that can be seen from SPACE for the past DECADE * https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/10/20/ameri... * https://science.nasa.gov/earth/earth-observatory/gas-drillin... that's already raising the local area temps, why not put that wasted fuel to work instead? build the datacenters literally next to the fr…

You described the company Crusoe. They've been building datacenters that do exactly what you said. https://www.crusoe.ai/resources/blog/understanding-the-probl... > Crusoe has built their business around turning flaring from an operational and regulatory risk for oil and gas companies, as well as an existential risk for our planet, into a multi-solve solution. Crusoe doesn’t just mitigate flaring emissions. They capt…

wow Crusoe deserves more press if everything they are saying checks out

flaring has upset me for a decade, even if it was just used for bitcoin mining it would have at least done something vaguely beneficial compared to just raising earth temperature

but if it can help solve the "AI" energy demand boom that would be huge

because it's not like this country is ever going to stop fracking at $80-$100 a barrel now

Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#75

Post by mfnfnnf » Tue, Aug 18, 2026, 6:30 PM UTC

compass_copium wrote: post #59

dwoldrich wrote: post #35

I cannot figure out if this data center panic is legit or trumped up. There are legitimate nation-state and political entities that would love to create pressure for degrowth in this area. And, pollution and natural resources are a concern, yes, fine, sure. NIMBY happens, I get it ... *BUT*, we've been building huge data centers for decades and they are minuscule compared to the size of the earth. My skeptic meter ma…

I'm a hobbyist IT enthusiast, not a professional computer guy, but from my point of view there's a big difference between a bunch of servers hosting something people want, like Netflix, and a warehouse full of GPUs running around the clock to make Lobster Jesus or whatever. It's also a proxy for people's feelings on AI--essentially the only way people have to fight back against the new technology that makes eternal g…

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Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#76

Post by Imustaskforhelp » Tue, Aug 18, 2026, 6:30 PM UTC

juancn wrote: post #56

dwoldrich wrote: post #35

I cannot figure out if this data center panic is legit or trumped up. There are legitimate nation-state and political entities that would love to create pressure for degrowth in this area. And, pollution and natural resources are a concern, yes, fine, sure. NIMBY happens, I get it ... *BUT*, we've been building huge data centers for decades and they are minuscule compared to the size of the earth. My skeptic meter ma…

One HUGE issue is that datacenters don't have an afterlife in the communities where they're located. They add to the Rust Belt once their lifetimes end, contrast this with old brick warehouses which were eventually repurposed as homes and offices. If they were built with a bit of thought around what happens once they depreciate completely and they're abandoned/sold for residual value they wouldn't be as despised. Cur…

> Current construction completely ignores the nearby communities present and future development.

The issue is an incentive one, for the companies involved in the construction.

Right now, they are getting paid so much to build it fast. Time is of the greatest importance. Nothing else is mattering to anyone involved except how fast datacenters are being built. At best, this is an after-thought.

As such, I believe that we have to change the incentives to create more sustainability but it requires time, discussion. Perhaps laws can help in making them more sustainable but currently, the sad reality is that for all the parties actually involved, I don't think that many truly care about the after-math or repurcussions of it as much as its the only thing that they want right now

Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#77

Post by dgellow » Tue, Aug 18, 2026, 6:31 PM UTC

api wrote: post #62

dwoldrich wrote: post #35

I cannot figure out if this data center panic is legit or trumped up. There are legitimate nation-state and political entities that would love to create pressure for degrowth in this area. And, pollution and natural resources are a concern, yes, fine, sure. NIMBY happens, I get it ... *BUT*, we've been building huge data centers for decades and they are minuscule compared to the size of the earth. My skeptic meter ma…

I've done a bit of research into it, and I think it's a mix. The energy thing is exaggerated. Want to compensate for a week of heavy AI coding usage? If you drive to work, telecommute for one day. Skip one long-distance DoorDash order. Cars use tons of energy, a lot more per-user than the fraction of data center capacity you're using with your AI stuff. A burrito on DoorDash delivered using an average MPG gas car use…

> Make them pay more for their water and they'll magically discover closed cycle cooling.

A closed cycle cooling system doesn't solve the overall problem of water usage. Yes you have a cycle within the datacenter, but you need to then move that energy somewhere else, out of the system. Eventually that energy needs to find its way in the environment. A close loop system for a datacenter reduces the water use on site, but actually increase electro use. If that electricity comes from a power plant that is cooled by water you just moved the problem upstream

Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#78

Post by zamadatix » Tue, Aug 18, 2026, 6:31 PM UTC

dwoldrich wrote: post #35

I cannot figure out if this data center panic is legit or trumped up. There are legitimate nation-state and political entities that would love to create pressure for degrowth in this area. And, pollution and natural resources are a concern, yes, fine, sure. NIMBY happens, I get it ... *BUT*, we've been building huge data centers for decades and they are minuscule compared to the size of the earth. My skeptic meter ma…

These days there always seems to be panic regardless. I find it better to look at the merits of individual claims rather than try to group everything together into a binary answer like a possible conspiracy on one thing means nothing else needs to be considered.

Zoning, grid strain (->pricing), and chip strain (->pricing) seem to be pretty legit most of the time I look into them. Noise seems to have a lot of "they opened a 5G tower in the town and now I get nightmares" type panic but also some legitimate problems which, ultimately, relate to zoning. I try to reserve NIMBY for "things I want in someone's back yard, just not mine". The reality is data centers don't fit that because there is no reason they need to be in anyone's back yard. They are perfectly happy to be built in the middle of other industry/commercial blocks or even in the middle of nowhere.

I think if the grid had been better prepared for massive demand growth with cleaner sources than before and things came in slow enough that zoning didn't feel rushed people wouldn't really make as much of a stink around it. Unfortunately, the US spent many years with flat grid demand and companies want to cram these DCs in as fast as possible because their demand was for last year already.

For some large factor, it's also a reason to really hate on AI. Which there may well be valid reasons for, I just also wonder how many of these people actually care about the environment and how many are just saying it because it's another con to list. I say this as someone who has traditionally voted for environmentally conscious options/representatives - my previously existing circle doesn't spend that much time talking about AI compared to other causes.

Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#79

Post by cindyllm » Tue, Aug 18, 2026, 6:31 PM UTC

duplessitous wrote: post #72

holdupagain wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"residential zoning" looks like an intentional misunderstanding of the problem. Putting one outside of "residential zoning" surely isn't a problem even if it robs an entire residential zone of power, right? Or then governments can't just re-allocate residential zones to industrial zones to get those juicy deals, right? The way you're using language here is putting the problem so close to the edge that abuse, ignoring…

> Or then governments can't just re-allocate residential zones to industrial zones to get those juicy deals, right? Which is why we need laws around where data centers can and cannot be built. Something I clearly alluded to in my first comment. Do you want to make up things I never said such that you can make some snarky comment and feel good about yourself or have a real conversation? If it is the former, fuck off.

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Re: Field measurements of neighborhood-scale air temperature impacts of data centers

#80

Post by ok_computer » Tue, Aug 18, 2026, 6:31 PM UTC

dwoldrich wrote: post #35

I cannot figure out if this data center panic is legit or trumped up. There are legitimate nation-state and political entities that would love to create pressure for degrowth in this area. And, pollution and natural resources are a concern, yes, fine, sure. NIMBY happens, I get it ... *BUT*, we've been building huge data centers for decades and they are minuscule compared to the size of the earth. My skeptic meter ma…

Small scale natural gas turbine plants are bad for local human air due to NOx emissions.