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Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

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Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#721

Post by datsci_est_2015 »

jameshilliard wrote: post #682
datsci_est_2015 wrote: post #624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't view Ben Gvir's rise to a position of powers as a product of democracy, as much of a product of artificial states, neocolonialism, ethnostates, and apartheid. More directly, his rise to power is a direct result of the financial support of Israeli settlements over the past century which could not have existed in the absence of such financial support: settlers were paid to live in a specific strategic locations…

> I don't view Ben Gvir's rise to a position of powers as a product of democracy, as much of a product of artificial states, neocolonialism, ethnostates, and apartheid. From my understanding Ben Gvir(who has very little overall support in Israel from the population at large) getting elected is more of a consequence of Israel having nationwide proportional representation which allows extremists to get elected. Ben Gvi…

> From my understanding Ben Gvir(who has very little overall support in Israel from the population at large) getting elected is more of a consequence of Israel having nationwide proportional representation which allows extremists to get elected.

The existence of the support for those extremists has the same root cause that I stated in my original message: the artificial and strategic neocolonial state propped up by outside financial support with the expressed goal of establishing an ethnostate that eventually and inevitably led to apartheid.

> So most states in the middle east should be dissolved? It's not clear what you're actually advocating for in practice.

You can't unscramble an egg. Dissolution of dysfunctional but non-anarchic states is obviously a hyperbolic solution that I think you're aware brings nothing to the table as a suggestion.

What I'm advocating for in practice is quite clear in my original post, but I'll state it again: we need to denounce artificial states, neocolonialism, ethnostates, and apartheid. Much in the same way that we denounce war crimes, sex trafficking, and slavery.

> So we should dissolve most states including the United States due to flawed founding principals?

Again, you're bringing nothing to the table here with hyperbole. But in a way, yes, during Reconstruction a more heavy-handed approach should have been used to eliminate with great fury and prejudice the cultural desire for an apartheid state in the South, and maybe prevented or softened 150 years of suffering for black people and their descendants.

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#722

Post by frollogaston »

grokcodec wrote: post #618
thisislife2 wrote: post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the heads up. It's useful information. From the article: > The Quincy Institute routinely vilifies supporters of Israel in Washington. Its principal goal is to reorient American policy in the Middle East, marginalising America’s two leading allies, Israel and Saudi Arabia, while promoting Iran as a future regional hegemon. John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt, authors of The Israel Lobby, are both Quincy fell…

Here's the difference though - Israel is an ally of the United States while Iran is a sworn enemy that has killed thousands of Americans since the 1979 revolution and routinely chants "Death to America". So, not equivalent.

They're both enemies to the US. If anything Israel is a more realistic threat at home.

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#723

Post by redsocksfan45 »

bitcoin_anon wrote: post #642

Belloc's The Jews is a nice introduction to this issue. He wrote it a century ago when things were similarly heating up, but before things had clearly boiled over. He was prescient when he said: "For if the quarrel is allowed to rise unchecked and to proceed unappeased, we shall come, unexpectedly and soon, upon one of these tragedies which have marked for centuries the relations between this peculiar nation and ours…

[dead]

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#724

Post by megous »

yonixw wrote: post #664
shimman wrote: post #654

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A settler colonial apartheid state is bigoted by nature. I don't understand your defense outside of the word "bigoted" making you upset when you should be more upset at the rampant colonialism and genocide being done in the name of religion. Are you really upset because the descriptions make you sad?

Your have 3 mistakes in describing Israel as "settler colonial apartheid" alone. I cannot help you. Maybe Wikis or LLMs will or [1] as a start. I am only sad about HN level of discussion, and how smart people in tech leave their critical thinking, kicking it out the door when the "I-word" is in the article/comment. [1] https://share.gemini.google/cF5oyWZID7UR

Judges from ICJ may need your deep learnings too, since they describe Israel policies as apartheid, too.

And as far as settler-colonial goes. Establishing your pet state on other people's land while driving out the original population with terror and violence and death marches to the front lines, while stripping them of valuables along the way and using them as human shields as Israelis like to say these days, while settling former population's land and houses, is as settler and as colonial as a [Zionist] group can get, outside of actual state establishing actual colony somewhere.

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#725

Post by bigyabai »

grokcodec wrote: post #618
thisislife2 wrote: post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the heads up. It's useful information. From the article: > The Quincy Institute routinely vilifies supporters of Israel in Washington. Its principal goal is to reorient American policy in the Middle East, marginalising America’s two leading allies, Israel and Saudi Arabia, while promoting Iran as a future regional hegemon. John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt, authors of The Israel Lobby, are both Quincy fell…

Here's the difference though - Israel is an ally of the United States while Iran is a sworn enemy that has killed thousands of Americans since the 1979 revolution and routinely chants "Death to America". So, not equivalent.

> Iran is a sworn enemy that has killed thousands of Americans since the 1979 revolution

Do you want to include SAVAK's pre-1979 death/disappearance/torture count to help contextualize your point? Or would that undermine it?

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#726

Post by MomsAVoxell »

rbanffy wrote: post #630
MomsAVoxell wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anglo-/Western and Russian governments have been strategic rivals for more than two centuries. Britain repeatedly sought to limit Russian expansion that threatened its own interests, such as routes to India, access to Caspian oil resources, etc. See also, the Great Game and the Eastern Question. They’re enemies because they want each others stuff. Russia has a LOT of stuff that the British would be quite happy to ‘ma…

> Russia has a LOT of stuff that the British would be quite happy to ‘manage’. And vice-versa, which results in the polite games being played, where everyone knows everyone else is doing shitty stuff to everyone, but nobody will ever admit it because that might cause the shitty stuff to descend into a shooting war, which is something we try to avoid as much as we can.

Not any more we don’t. We’re actively attempting to start war with Russia and it is happening.

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#727

Post by HDThoreaun »

vcryan wrote: post #638
starik36 wrote: post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only there was a solution on the table that's been there for years and that one side refuses to accept over and over again. And that can put a stop to bombing or dirt or whatever. Two state solution.

Or a one state solution with a Palestinian leader.

Why would israelis ever agree to give up control of their government? They hold all the cards here, any solution will have to be one that favors israel because the status quo is just fine for them

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#728

Post by jameshilliard »

datsci_est_2015 wrote: post #721
jameshilliard wrote: post #682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't view Ben Gvir's rise to a position of powers as a product of democracy, as much of a product of artificial states, neocolonialism, ethnostates, and apartheid. From my understanding Ben Gvir(who has very little overall support in Israel from the population at large) getting elected is more of a consequence of Israel having nationwide proportional representation which allows extremists to get elected. Ben Gvi…

> From my understanding Ben Gvir(who has very little overall support in Israel from the population at large) getting elected is more of a consequence of Israel having nationwide proportional representation which allows extremists to get elected. The existence of the support for those extremists has the same root cause that I stated in my original message: the artificial and strategic neocolonial state propped up by o…

> The existence of the support for those extremists has the same root cause that I stated in my original message: the artificial and strategic neocolonial state propped up by outside financial support with the expressed goal of establishing an ethnostate that eventually led to apartheid.

Do you attribute Palestinian support for extremism to a similar root cause? Opinion polling indicates the extremism problem is far worse on the Palestinian side, Israeli extremism trends tend to be fairly reactionary to Palestinian extremism(i.e. Second Intifada) historically.

> What I'm advocating for in practice is quite clear in my original post, but I'll state it again: we need to denounce artificial states, neocolonialism, ethnostates, and apartheid. Much in the same way that we denounce war crimes, sex trafficking, and slavery.

So you're just advocating just for more virtue signalling instead of actual concrete actions? I don't see how that would meaningfully change the situation on the ground as I don't see how denouncing the right for Israel to exist is going to do anything except push Israel towards a more extreme position.

> But in a way, yes, during Reconstruction a more heavy-handed approach should have been used to eliminate with great fury and prejudice the cultural desire for an apartheid state in the South, and maybe prevented or softened 150 years of suffering for black people and their descendants.

Are you suggesting Israel also take a more heavy handed approach when it comes to eliminating the widespread practice of teaching of hate and antisemitism[0] to Palestinians?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textbooks_in_the_Israeli%E2%80...

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#729

Post by manyaoman »

starik36 wrote: post #703
watutalkinbout wrote: post #690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but within Eastern Europe acceptance of Jews is generally higher than acceptance of Muslims, based on polling. Many non-Israeli Jews view Israel's actions as abhorent, particularly younger Jews. Being associated with Israel over the last few years must be a very uncomfortable place to be.

> Many non-Israeli Jews view Israel's actions as abhorent, particularly younger Jews. And this comes of your own polling? As a non-Israeli Jew, I've seen quite the opposite. They closed ranks in the face of an external threat, especially the younger ones. Ignore Hollywood and Hannah Einbinders of the world - that is not the reality.

"47% of [American] Jews now view the Israeli government favorably, down from 54% [in 2024]."

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2026/07/09/americans...

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#730

Post by red-iron-pine »

rbanffy wrote: post #513
culi wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's already been happening for a very long time. The US' "Operation Earnest Voice" happened in 2010/2011[0] And it's not just state actors. Anyone who was online during the Amber Heard/Johnny Depp trials was likely inundated with media about that trial. Both of their legal teams utilized bots to drive online discussions[1][2] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Earnest_Voice [1] https://www.latimes.com/enter…

I think the big difference is that before the internet you'd need to be a Murdoch to be able to do something like this. A good PR firm could fool a number of news outlets into thinking something is legit, but it was a lot harder to convince a professional journalist than it is to convince the average Faux News watcher.

even with the internet you need a marketing company with the reach and ability, and social media platforms to use and abuse

the maturity of those platforms, their "we need to make big money" drive to allow obviously bad actors to work their magic, and the ability to automate is what has weaponized it

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