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California's new tire efficiency rules could save drivers $1B a year

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Re: California's new tire efficiency rules could save drivers $1B a year

#41
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you get LED lightbulbs you like online?

Yeah, the Philips EyeComfort Flicker Free bulbs. Which HD used to sell. Now it's 90% a couple other brands. The problem is landlords and normal people just go to home depot so every time I move it's a giant replace bulbs fiasco (or even replacing fixtures).

[dead]

Re: California's new tire efficiency rules could save drivers $1B a year

#42

What a silly law. If a tire is "inefficient" and therefore "bad", why can't California just ban the sale of them? Instead there will be a new government funded office and rating system with "leaf" icons that 95% of consumers will ignore completely. Like all types of laws like this, the "$1B" claim will never be reviewed or judged to see how accurate it is. (It's not, at all)

Because things aren't as simple as you make up. "why can't California just ban the sale of them" -- because that infringes freedom too much? There are probably lots of special machines with tires (e.g. in construction, farming, mining) that absolutely need "bad tyres". Because only they work, e.g. due to construction form or physical properties like maximum pressure. If some armchair person now goes here and outright…

So about 1% of a 1% of a market. Got it. All of the information about the tires is already available. There is no new information, just duplicated.

If a large number of consumers actually cared about their tires drag coefficient we wouldn't be having this conversation, because a large number of consumers already cared about their tires drag coefficient. But nobody does and this law will not change anything.

Re: California's new tire efficiency rules could save drivers $1B a year

#43
post #9

I would like to see a rule added that requires embedding a uuid for each tire so if you litter it, or your trucking company loses a re-tread, the state can chase you down and bill you, even years later. Upon selling a vehicle or replacing tires, your name is taken off the liability list and transferred to the new owner or shop. The retreads alone cost the state quite a bit and are dangerous to remove from the traffic…

Do TPMSs have uuids? Although I suppose it would just be a matter of time until Flock tracks those too, if they don't already

That would be too easy to remove. I'm thinking something like a tiny ribbon with a barcode embedded in the tread. Otherwise it would be trivial to cut the spigot (assuming that's where the sensor is located)

Re: California's new tire efficiency rules could save drivers $1B a year

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do TPMSs have uuids? Although I suppose it would just be a matter of time until Flock tracks those too, if they don't already

That would be too easy to remove. I'm thinking something like a tiny ribbon with a barcode embedded in the tread. Otherwise it would be trivial to cut the spigot (assuming that's where the sensor is located)

The sensor is stuck to the inside of the wheel and can't be removed without unmounting all 4 tires.

Re: California's new tire efficiency rules could save drivers $1B a year

#45
post #9

I would like to see a rule added that requires embedding a uuid for each tire so if you litter it, or your trucking company loses a re-tread, the state can chase you down and bill you, even years later. Upon selling a vehicle or replacing tires, your name is taken off the liability list and transferred to the new owner or shop. The retreads alone cost the state quite a bit and are dangerous to remove from the traffic…

Do TPMSs have uuids? Although I suppose it would just be a matter of time until Flock tracks those too, if they don't already

They have a 32 bit ID, assigned sequentially during manufacture, with no coordination among manufacturers to avoid overlap. There will certainly be collisions. Those can often be disambiguated though because there is almost no standardization of anything else about the transmission.

The closest thing to a standard is that most either operate in the 315 MHz band (which is mostly older ones in North America and Asia) or the 433 MHz band (there are restriction in Europe with the 315 MHz band). Most worldwide are now in the 433 MHz band. Tesla switched to using BLE, and others are starting to support that.

For the 433 MHz (and I'd guess 315 MHz) there is pretty much no standard beyond that. It is a lot like the situation in wireless weather sensors and other non-WiFi/non-Bluetooth IoT devices.

Different manufacturers use different modulation (AM or FM), different ways to encode bits, and different packet structures.

These can definitely be tracked. I have an RPi with an RTL-SDR dongle that runs rtl_433 and logs the output. I pick up TPMS sensors from cars other than my own that are at least 18 meters away. This was using the small antenna that comes with many RTL-SDRs. I've now got a much better antenna that is picking up many more things on 433 MHz so probably am getting cars farther away now.

There was a study that explored this [1]. They put a network of 433 MHz sensors along roads and in parking lots. They captured 6 million packets from 20k cars. They found groups of IDs that came and went at the same time to fingerprint individual cars and were able to map out driver's daily routines and commute schedules.

Note that unlike cameras and automatic license plate readers this requires no line of sight, so is much less bothered by heavy rain or fog or dirty plates.

Use a good antenna and you should be able to make this work at up to maybe 100 meters or if the cars are in concrete parking structure.

[1] https://networks.imdea.org/your-cars-tire-sensors-could-be-u...

Re: California's new tire efficiency rules could save drivers $1B a year

#46
post #9

I would like to see a rule added that requires embedding a uuid for each tire so if you litter it, or your trucking company loses a re-tread, the state can chase you down and bill you, even years later. Upon selling a vehicle or replacing tires, your name is taken off the liability list and transferred to the new owner or shop. The retreads alone cost the state quite a bit and are dangerous to remove from the traffic…

Fine, but in that case the trucking companies should also be able to bill the state for all damage caused to their vehicles by badly maintained roads. Maybe every pothole should have an ID so that damage caused by it can be traced back and billed to the state responsible for managing that part of the road? Better still, have rules about maintenance for both roads as well as vehicles, use regular (yearly, past-the-win…

If the retread comes off from hitting a pothole, that's an issue with the re-manufacturer.

I didn't use the word "fine" - as in "$500 fine for littering". I said "bill you". If a DoT has to stop and collect a strip of retread then he should bill a proper rate for his time and resources. If a stack of tires is abandoned in the desert, they should be collected, disposed of properly, and send the bill to the owner. A uuid embedded in the tread would facilitate that.

Re: California's new tire efficiency rules could save drivers $1B a year

#47
The energy efficient tires have much longer wet braking distance. And they last less (for similar priced tires).

Anyway, saying how it will save money is not right way how to promote this (it is really hard to predict all 2nd order effects this might cause - including increase of accidents, noise pollution, market forces (less choice), and similar).

Re: California's new tire efficiency rules could save drivers $1B a year

#48
post #47

The energy efficient tires have much longer wet braking distance. And they last less (for similar priced tires). Anyway, saying how it will save money is not right way how to promote this (it is really hard to predict all 2nd order effects this might cause - including increase of accidents, noise pollution, market forces (less choice), and similar).

Seems right to me.

So what is the right way then?

Re: California's new tire efficiency rules could save drivers $1B a year

#50
post #20

Looking forward to picking up new pilot sports in Nevada.

Same. It seems like they will just give them one leaf marking and not outlaw them outright, though?

Right. If they wanted to ban things this would basically ban all knobby tires too wouldn’t it?

This is a primarily a labeling law it seems so people don’t get accidentally screwed. Seems like a good idea to me.

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