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Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

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Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#51

Post by throwaway2037 »

susanthenerd wrote: post #31

Honestly, this is why I like Dutch consumer law. Dutch law states that the guarantee duration is dependent on the expected lifespan of a product. Continued official BIOS support is evidence that the device remains within its supported lifetime and also dutch law treats defective or incomplete updates as non-conformity. Therefore, in this situation it would be framework fault and the device would also be within warran…

The Australia consumer laws are also famously strong. One question: That Dutch law is not zero-cost. Does Framework Laptop charger higher prices compared to the US due to this consumer protection laws? My point: We can presume that Dutch buyers will make more (valid/accepted) warranty claims than those in the United States (with comparatively much weaker consumer laws).

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#52

Post by mchristen »

lejalv wrote: post #41

The entire USB-C situation with the Frameworks (I have both the original gen 11 and the AMD 7040) is a massive train wreck. They have clearly given up on fixing it. Only some of my ports work, and not reliably. Th EC controller is a bug fest. If you don't believe me, check their forums. I wish I could get back all the hours I spent debugging this, to no avail.

I'm lucky that I had no USBC issues with mine I guess. Unlike my ryzen desktop that hard locks when resuming from suspend sometimes when it goes to enumerate the USB devices. If I time a key press right I can get it to continue some times, but if I miss the window it just shuts down entirely.

AMD has had several USB based issues on their 500 series chipsets, x570 etc. so part of me wonders how much of these problems are on the vendor vs the integrator.

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#53

Post by free_bip »

fwipsy wrote: post #33

Framework seems pretty popular here in general, but nobody really seems to talk about how repairable enterprise laptops are. Some laptops have clips around the edge of the bottom panel to hold it in place, which frequently break. On my brother's T480s, those clips were made out of metal and held in with screws, meaning they were themselves replaceable. More recently I worked on a Dell Precision 7550 laptop, and if yo…

Most consumers are not an IT department, unfortunately.

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#54

Post by vaylian »

I know that firmware (and software in general) has bugs. But I wonder why modern firmware for UEFI has to be so complex, that it needs updates on a regular basis. It would be nice to have a dead-simple hardware-initialisation system that doesn't need regular updates and that only has very limited attack surface.

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#55

Post by sandreas »

fwipsy wrote: post #33

Framework seems pretty popular here in general, but nobody really seems to talk about how repairable enterprise laptops are. Some laptops have clips around the edge of the bottom panel to hold it in place, which frequently break. On my brother's T480s, those clips were made out of metal and held in with screws, meaning they were themselves replaceable. More recently I worked on a Dell Precision 7550 laptop, and if yo…

You are right... I personally own a T480s and it is a remarkable device, which can be repaired just like the framework (although most parts are no longer available new). I added a glass trackpad (which is way better than the original) and ordered a WQHD Display + Cable to upgrade from FullHD to WQHD (2560x1440?). Batteries can be replaced, RAM can be upgraded (in a way, part of it is soldered) and everything has a unique part number that can be easily researched.

However, newer Lenovo Devices (like the Lenovo ThinkPad X9-15 Aura Edition which I would love to buy) are not that repairable any more. Sometimes I think it is for a reason, sometimes I think it may just be no longer reasonable. Even Framework claimed that their Desktop Ryzen 395+ RAM timings were to tight to allow using LPCAMM2 and if you'd like to get the last bit of performance out of a machine, short traces and soldered connections may be the only remaining option, even for SSDs. Additionally, OLEDs didn't make it into Frameworks notebooks yet and that might be a similar reason - harder repairability.

Whatever the reason is, I like Frameworks philosophy of LISTENING to customers and maybe their success has changed the way bigger vendors produce there stuff (if only a little bit). I'm not expecting Apple to do this, but at least HP and Dell seem to have slightly changed their path of vendor locking to be more repairable again.

I would bet that this story of a failed BIOS update reaches the support anytime soon and they provide a repair guide or maybe a replaceable BIOS chip. Stories like this are somehow sad but at least they help to improve.

BTW: Dell has great repairable business notebooks (I recently switched to a cheap Latitude 5420 - the T480s was getting to slow for some tasks), but there are caveats I immediately noticed and most people don't think of:

- Keyboard Backlight is way too bright in the lowest setting

- Keyboard layout is a bit off

- It cannot be opened with one hand

- Display Brightness steps are to low (using the ALT key could increase / decrease the step size, like in MacBooks)

- Display Brightness cannot be set to "off" / black screen (this only works on macbooks)

- The Dell 5520 Trackpad is horrible

- Nobody except Apple supports AudioJack-Headphones remotes for controlling audio playback and volume (with USB-C to audiojack Adapters this works out of the box on Linux)

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#56

Post by wedemmoez »

vaylian wrote: post #54

I know that firmware (and software in general) has bugs. But I wonder why modern firmware for UEFI has to be so complex, that it needs updates on a regular basis. It would be nice to have a dead-simple hardware-initialisation system that doesn't need regular updates and that only has very limited attack surface.

That is the dream isn't it? But there's no such thing since even a simple one that requires no updates would have some sort of vulnerability that needs an update, and the cycle continues.

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#57

Post by vaylian »

wedemmoez wrote: post #56
vaylian wrote: post #54

I know that firmware (and software in general) has bugs. But I wonder why modern firmware for UEFI has to be so complex, that it needs updates on a regular basis. It would be nice to have a dead-simple hardware-initialisation system that doesn't need regular updates and that only has very limited attack surface.

That is the dream isn't it? But there's no such thing since even a simple one that requires no updates would have some sort of vulnerability that needs an update, and the cycle continues.

I agree. But we could still try to have a smaller hardware initialisation system. And if there is the occasional need to patch a security vulnerability, then that patch is probably a lot more straightforward.

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#58

Post by jorvi »

drdexebtjl wrote: post #28
allenbina wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know some higher end gaming motherboards that were targeted towards the overclocking community had two bios chips for exactly this purpose and switching between them was trivial from what I remember. If you overclocked too far, you wouldn't brick your system. It seemed like overkill to me. I'm guessing this is less common than it's worth to fix in software, but then at least continue to give support for the issue.

If you overclocked too far, you could remove the CMOS battery or hold the CLR_CMOS button that these high-end boards probably had. Two BIOS chips was supposed to protect you from bad BIOS updates or a bad BIOS mod, just like the scenario from TFA.

Possible they're thinking of certain OC editions of GPUs. Some of them have 2 BIOSes you can switch between with a little slider. Some even 3.

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#59

Post by dinkleberg »

semiquaver wrote: post #13

My framework was sitting in a drawer for two years and now will not turn on no matter how long I charge it. I assume there’s a dead coin cell in there somewhere or something that needs changed but it’s pretty disappointing.

I've got the same situation. Not impressed.

Re: Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

#60

Post by thisislife2 »

Sweepi wrote: post #4

> For three years, the laptop has served me well, until Framework suggested via newsletter to install the latest BIOS update, version 3.20, with a bunch of security fixes. Unfortunately, the system hung and displayed a corrupt image on the screen, signifying a failed BIOS flash. > Naturally, I reached out to Framework support, who told me to unplug the laptop, let the battery drain, and power it back on again afterwa…

I sympathise with both parties. As customers, things like these really do test our patience. I wanted to support Jolla / Sailfish and purchased their phone but dealing with the bugs in the OS, for years, even as I was using it as my main phone, was sometimes exasperating, if not down right frustrating. At the same time, it was also disheartening to see Jolla make wrong business decisions, and struggle to stay alive as a business. Sad to see Framework struggling with their products too. It is difficult to not be angry at a company you want to support but are also pissed at because you are not getting your money's worth.
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