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Judge sets framework for Nine PBS to retrieve archival data

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Re: Judge sets framework for Nine PBS to retrieve archival data

#41

Post by Hobadee »

mywittyname wrote: post #35
toofy wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> … was just ignoring regulations that were built up over decades, only discovering the reasons for those regulations … yeah it’s unreal to me how many people who imagine themselves intelligent are just now discovering the equivalent to why we make wheels round. they never think to ask “why does regulation x exist?” its absolutely crazypants.

> they never think to ask “why does regulation x exist?” They do, but they think the answer is always some riff on, "government overreach because bureaucrats need to justify their jobs." That attitude has been firmly ingrained into (at least) a generation of people.

TBF, a solid 50% of regulation is probably government overreach. The problem is that it's intrinsically tangled with the other 50% (crossing various specializations/laws/departments) that isn't; you can't undo one without undoing both.

Re: Judge sets framework for Nine PBS to retrieve archival data

#42

Post by veggieroll »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #34
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #16

I think stories like these highlight the need for clearer (not necessarily more) regulations around contractor/subcontractor/client relationships and what happens when one of them goes tits up. There were rampant issues in the fintech world that exploded when Synapse, a banking as a service provider, went bankrupt and their ledger didn't match what partner banks had in their accounts. End users were told "your deposi…

Why do you think the laws and regulations are unclear? This seems to be following the completely standard and expected process. Contractor goes belly up, so you go to court and a judge who confirms they were a custodian of your data and you are entitled to retreive it. Same would be the case if I was leasing equipment to someone and they had it at a storage lot. If the middle party dies or goes bankrupt, I get a cour…

It’s already been months in this case. And, court cases often take many years to resolve.

The issue is more that the court is slow and expensive even in the best case.

Re: Judge sets framework for Nine PBS to retrieve archival data

#43

Post by wat10000 »

toofy wrote: post #33
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #16

I think stories like these highlight the need for clearer (not necessarily more) regulations around contractor/subcontractor/client relationships and what happens when one of them goes tits up. There were rampant issues in the fintech world that exploded when Synapse, a banking as a service provider, went bankrupt and their ledger didn't match what partner banks had in their accounts. End users were told "your deposi…

> … was just ignoring regulations that were built up over decades, only discovering the reasons for those regulations … yeah it’s unreal to me how many people who imagine themselves intelligent are just now discovering the equivalent to why we make wheels round. they never think to ask “why does regulation x exist?” its absolutely crazypants.

Propaganda works.

Re: Judge sets framework for Nine PBS to retrieve archival data

#44

Post by Animats »

The court got this right. This is when you need a special master to help with cleanup after a bankruptcy.

We saw something like this when TechShop went bankrupt, with member property in storage on the premises. The bankruptcy trustee set up a procedure where former members could make an appointment to retrieve their property, escorted by a representative of the trustee. Huge pain, but necessary.

Re: Judge sets framework for Nine PBS to retrieve archival data

#45

Post by emilio2601 »

kmeisthax wrote: post #30
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #16

I think stories like these highlight the need for clearer (not necessarily more) regulations around contractor/subcontractor/client relationships and what happens when one of them goes tits up. There were rampant issues in the fintech world that exploded when Synapse, a banking as a service provider, went bankrupt and their ledger didn't match what partner banks had in their accounts. End users were told "your deposi…

If you talk to a lawyer (or, worse, a legislator, many of whom are also lawyers and all of whom are surrounded by them), they will insist up and down that this is a pretty standard custodial arrangement dispute and that the system worked as intended. And I would, very begrudgingly agree with that. The legal system is perfectly capable of recognizing stolen property no matter how many layers of abstraction you put it…

> FDIC insurance doesn't cascade into your customers' accounts, because if it did, you'd be a bank.

It does cascade. It's called pass-through deposit insurance, it's codified in 12 CFR § 330.5 and 330.7. It has existed since the founding of the FDIC. Its enabling statute expressly provided that deposit insurance should be calculated based on the beneficial owners of a deposit account, regardless of in whose name the account is. [0]

Common arrangements include: HSAs, HOA accounts, UTMA/UGMA accounts, guardians and conservators, mortgage servicing accounts, escrow and title agents, payroll processors, brokerage cash sweep programs, prepaid cards, and yes, fintechs. [1]

[0] https://www.fdic.gov/notice-proposed-rulemaking-custodial-de...

[1] https://www.fdic.gov/financial-institution-employees-guide-d...

Re: Judge sets framework for Nine PBS to retrieve archival data

#46

Post by ggm »

Hobadee wrote: post #41
mywittyname wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they never think to ask “why does regulation x exist?” They do, but they think the answer is always some riff on, "government overreach because bureaucrats need to justify their jobs." That attitude has been firmly ingrained into (at least) a generation of people.

TBF, a solid 50% of regulation is probably government overreach. The problem is that it's intrinsically tangled with the other 50% (crossing various specializations/laws/departments) that isn't; you can't undo one without undoing both.

love the use of "solid" when both numbers (50, and the other 50) are pure unobtanium pulled out of an orifice.

"a lot" would be less rhetorically satisfying, but probably more appropriate.

I suspect the number is in fact, far less than 50%. In mining engineering, I'd be amazed if a significant majority of the rules don't stem from a significant accident or death, or forseeable need to avoid them. In medicine, the stakes are equally high. Building codes? It depends. The cost of tunnelling in NY isn't because of government compliance.

Re: Judge sets framework for Nine PBS to retrieve archival data

#48

Post by cge »

walrus01 wrote: post #39

I previously commented on this when a different, earlier news article and it wasn't clear at the time if the storage company was a colocation customer, or a dedicated server customer of Iron Mountain: ============================================= (from 4 days ago) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49293326 The news article is really not clear about whether this was, relative to the company "OSS": a) OSS is a coloc…

For some reason, despite these things being rather simple and concrete distinctions, all the reporting around the case keeps being confusing, vague, and contradictory. I had been rather convinced by the Ars Technica article [1] that Iron Mountain was just the data center operator and this was colocation of completely OSS-owned and managed equipment. Iron Mountain's statements there certainly seem to say that. There's the complexity here that, in general, Iron Mountain does apparently provide both data storage, and colocation.

[1]: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2026/08/pbs-s...

Re: Judge sets framework for Nine PBS to retrieve archival data

#49

Post by wolrah »

vondur wrote: post #47

I'm a bit confused from Iron Mountain's response about how they are worried that data could be co-mingled with other data? That would be an interesting way to back up data.

No idea how OSS and Iron Mountain were doing things so this is pure speculation, but if for example Iron Mountain were providing an object storage platform on which OSS then ran some secondary platform that stored all the data in one place with separate metadata to figure out what's what then it's entirely reasonable that they might not be able to easily separate it out. Not saying that'd be a good way to do it, but it's easily plausible

I do something similar with my clients backups, each individual client gets their own bucket on B2 for many obvious reasons but to sort out anything beyond what's obvious from the bucket name you need the backup software and appropriate encryption keys.

Re: Judge sets framework for Nine PBS to retrieve archival data

#50

Post by ameliaquining »

kmeisthax wrote: post #30
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #16

I think stories like these highlight the need for clearer (not necessarily more) regulations around contractor/subcontractor/client relationships and what happens when one of them goes tits up. There were rampant issues in the fintech world that exploded when Synapse, a banking as a service provider, went bankrupt and their ledger didn't match what partner banks had in their accounts. End users were told "your deposi…

If you talk to a lawyer (or, worse, a legislator, many of whom are also lawyers and all of whom are surrounded by them), they will insist up and down that this is a pretty standard custodial arrangement dispute and that the system worked as intended. And I would, very begrudgingly agree with that. The legal system is perfectly capable of recognizing stolen property no matter how many layers of abstraction you put it…

IIUC "FDIC insurance doesn't cascade into your customers' accounts" is not true in all cases, pass-through deposit insurance is a thing (https://www.fdic.gov/financial-institution-employees-guide-d...).

The problem in the case of Synapse was that they said they were doing that stuff, but were lying. (I think. The details of what happened there are apparently still not public. Also their bank seems to have been doing some sketchy things too.)

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