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NIH is ending a key grant for budding clinical researchers

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Re: NIH is ending a key grant for budding clinical researchers

#91
post #90

Once is gone, is gone. Scientists (and common people) should strike back and fund a political party in the next week of being fired. Or two, or five. If all your voting options lead to your death, create new options. That, and only that, would send the correct message. A message than the current dinosaur politicians will hear. Every scientist fired and interviewed should casually mention the idea of thinking about cr…

After the Covid-19 epidemic, a party of The Science™ might not be as popular as some people would like to believe.

Re: NIH is ending a key grant for budding clinical researchers

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a US citizen. From the outside it looks like the US administration simply does not care about advancing science and technology or care for their citizens or their future very much. It looks like it cares about furthering wealth and influence of the head of the in-group by means of fear mongering, scape goating and dismantling structures that threaten this agenda. And if there is a penny to save and a misinformati…

As others have said, this is about deliberate reality-destruction. Scientists are notorious for believing in things like observable reality, truth, scientific and academic integrity, etc. That puts them in opposition to the people currently running the US government — who absolutely do not want "experts" pointing-out the deficiencies in their policies and scams. Ron Suskind's quote of a Bush2-era politician sums it u…

Scientists are also notorious for being ideologically infiltrated by authoritarian or totalitarian ideologies/regimes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism The Soviet Union was convinced that collectivism was the ultimate form of human society and organization. Lysenkoism fed their biases, and Soviet Agrarian scientists struggled to point out the new collective experimentation by the government was a disaster (a similar problem was faced by Chinese scientists and Bureaucrats trying to implement Mao's great leap forward). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology Nazi Germany was convinced they were the greatest race on Earth, that Jews and Slavs were sub-human. Phrenology promised them a way to determine racial purity and back it up with scientific results. The scientific community brought us lobotomies and eugenics too.

Re: NIH is ending a key grant for budding clinical researchers

#93
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly, this is a bit of an ignorant take. 1st, K-awards are specially meant to provide a funding path to support an early career scientist to continue in the field. Expecting that another team has already replicated the early work of a young scientist is not realistic. They are just starting out. 2nd. If you want replication, you got to fund replication. Researcher money doesn't appear out of nowhere, so make the d…

Why should the fruits of our labor be taken to pay for some rando’s job training? If they actually had any potential, they wouldn’t need job training and certainly wouldn’t need average people to pay for it. I’ll think of the poor researchers once we get the homeless in my hometown of Pittsburgh down to zero. Currently, real people matter more to me.

Why? Oh researchers aren't real people? They are some elite group or something? Not people that work their assess off? Not people like me who went from growing up in a rural impoverished neighborhood of dirt and chicken-coops to become a scientists as a first generation college student, much less a professor?

Why? Because we can make more in the private industry, but choose not to. That is why the K exists. Our pay is much less than we can get elsewhere, but we choose to stay for our mission. We leave when forced to by economics. The whole nation loses when basic and clinical science falters. Every major advance, the very fact that we are writing messages back and forth, comes down to basic science that we layed the ground work for, but hey, fuck us, right? We aren't real people. Just elite fucks stealing from real people, I guess. Huh.

The fruits of your labor.

You, along with everyone else, use the fruits of *OUR* labor. Every fucking time you go to the doctor, get an MRI, fuel up your truck, plug in your computer, connect to wifi, use drugs to keep your dick hard, you are demonstrating that scientists helped build this country and this world, every bit as much as the guys digging ditches, building bridges, and picking fruit and cotton (all three of which my grandparents did in spades).

"some rando’s job training? If they actually had any potential, they wouldn’t need job training"... --your ignorance is startling. The people getting these k awards are the best of the best. You cannot get a R01 grant as a post-doc. You cannot even apply. The K is there to find the best post-docs, and give them funding that they can use as a post-doc, and carry over into their first real position. Moreover, that it is "job training" is just an intentional misnomer that has suppressed our wages for decades. Decades ago, a post-doc was the exception, not the rule. It was for scientists who could not find a position yet, or needed a few more months. The expectation was that an undergraduate (4 years) then a 6-7 years of graduate school was usually enough "training". But the desire for cheap labor and the successful production of trained scientists, and consistently lower than inflation growth in research funding created a situation where many of the best scientists were still spending 4-6 years in a post-doc position...a supposed training position, and one that still payed like it.

For example, a relation of mine finished his undergraduate, last year, and is already earning more than I am after 6 years of graduate school, 6 years as a postdoc, and two years as a professor at a top-notch research institution. From an economic decision, I was a stupid fuck. I like what I do, love it in fact, but the system abused me for it. Some fucking elite. Not a real person.

You are free to have the dumb as fuck position that we should not publicly fund science. You are also free to be ignorant as fuck about the real condition of working scientists, but I am also free as fuck to tell you that you are wrong.

I don't even blame you. Scientists are the favorite target of those who want to manipulate others through propaganda. If you respect scientists, not implicitly trust, but believe that most are serious and relatively trustworthy to tell you the truth as far as they can honestly discern, then propagandists can be ignored. So we get attacked and abused. Knock us down so that their talking heads can be the only arbiter of truth.

Finally, I agree, wholeheartedly that there is a lot of poverty and homelessness. I grew up in it. being it. But scientists are the wrong target for your ire. Funding research is a huge return on investment [1]. We can make improvements in how it is conducted, sure, but we shouldn't be the target of your ire. We create jobs. We create wealth. And then others make money off the fruit of our labor. Gobs of it. And we are actually trying to solve problems like homelessness to find interventions for drug abuse and mental health.

So what ever. I get your pain, but reject what you say with every particle of my being.

[1] https://www.aei.org/economics/in-praise-of-science-investmen...

Re: NIH is ending a key grant for budding clinical researchers

#94
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment has an implication bigger than your point. Returning to their home countries… are there not American PHD at American university? Has the ratio of native to international shifted over the years? I’m being somewhat sarcastic, given I see an overwhelming representation of internationals in the American grad/phd programs I’m familiar with. But I honestly don’t have insight across every department. I’d be int…

Top stem grad programs at US universities have around 50% international students, with Stanford CS, for instance, as high as 68%. This is according to published university data and matches my own observation. https://facts.mit.edu/enrollment-statistics/ https://hai.stanford.edu/assets/files/hai_ai-index-report-20...

This I know. My question is, has it always been so, or are Americans decreasing and internationals increasing?

I know international representation has generally increased in academics due to their cash cow status with higher tuition rates and most restricted employment options… but I don’t know if this applies specifically to PhD and grad just the same

If so, then the bigger story here is, why is America producing fewer and fewer high academic achievers (PhD, grad, high school reading level, all the way down to lower ed)

Re: NIH is ending a key grant for budding clinical researchers

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can anyone explain the reasoning behind it? I can understand (not saying I approve) targeted opposition to specific scientific claims to favor commercial interests (climate change denial to favor oil & gas, etc), but wouldn't a general anti-science movement make the country less competitive in the long run and directly hurt industries like pharma/etc?

Reality has a well known liberal bias. For example, the Security of War recently had a well produced video saying we're going to do anyway with vaccine mandates for the military. >Hegseth announced in late April that he was making the annual flu vaccine voluntary for service members "effective immediately." In a video posted to social media, Hegseth said requiring people to get vaccinated was "overly broad and not ra…

"Reality has a left-wing bias" the leftist chortled moments after claiming males can be pregnant.

Re: NIH is ending a key grant for budding clinical researchers

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like that from inside the US too. At least, to a lot of us.

I’d agree, and I’d add “by both sides”. The erosion of rigor and exceptionalism under the progressive mentality has been profoundly damaging as well. Both sides seem so driven by a culture war circle jerk that they have totally lost the plot in term of academic mission. I’ll add, the perverse incentives of publish or perish is also responsible for an aimless and irresponsible churn that lead us into the reproducibili…

I agree that the opposition has lost the plot, but to depict that as anywhere approaching this administration’s level of grift, extreme anti-intellectual (invent-your-own-reality) stance, or what I’ve seen described as “the cruelty is the point” is like comparing a schoolyard bully to a serial killer.

Re: NIH is ending a key grant for budding clinical researchers

#97
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should the fruits of our labor be taken to pay for some rando’s job training? If they actually had any potential, they wouldn’t need job training and certainly wouldn’t need average people to pay for it. I’ll think of the poor researchers once we get the homeless in my hometown of Pittsburgh down to zero. Currently, real people matter more to me.

Why? Oh researchers aren't real people? They are some elite group or something? Not people that work their assess off? Not people like me who went from growing up in a rural impoverished neighborhood of dirt and chicken-coops to become a scientists as a first generation college student, much less a professor? Why? Because we can make more in the private industry, but choose not to. That is why the K exists. Our pay i…

[deleted]

Re: NIH is ending a key grant for budding clinical researchers

#98
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

30% doesn't seem anywhere near as low as it should be though... I'd say that qualifies as "so many". That said I question both your and grandparents choice to look at only people who chose to vote. 68% of people who could have voted against this did not - either actively supporting it with a vote or deciding that they didn't give a fuck if it happened by not voting. Every potential voter either knew or ought to have…

The truly sobering statistic is that after all we've seen, 39% of the electorate still approves of him.

I’d wager 30% have a profound mental illness and could be convinced of literally anything. Not even a typical super majority vote requires that many people because 30% is the rough threshold of typical insanity prevalence.

Re: NIH is ending a key grant for budding clinical researchers

#99
post #90

Once is gone, is gone. Scientists (and common people) should strike back and fund a political party in the next week of being fired. Or two, or five. If all your voting options lead to your death, create new options. That, and only that, would send the correct message. A message than the current dinosaur politicians will hear. Every scientist fired and interviewed should casually mention the idea of thinking about cr…

After the Covid-19 epidemic, a party of The Science™ might not be as popular as some people would like to believe.

This people can always join the Amish and vote for the measles party if they want

Lets voters decide.

Re: NIH is ending a key grant for budding clinical researchers

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d agree, and I’d add “by both sides”. The erosion of rigor and exceptionalism under the progressive mentality has been profoundly damaging as well. Both sides seem so driven by a culture war circle jerk that they have totally lost the plot in term of academic mission. I’ll add, the perverse incentives of publish or perish is also responsible for an aimless and irresponsible churn that lead us into the reproducibili…

I agree that the opposition has lost the plot, but to depict that as anywhere approaching this administration’s level of grift, extreme anti-intellectual (invent-your-own-reality) stance, or what I’ve seen described as “the cruelty is the point” is like comparing a schoolyard bully to a serial killer.

There are absolutely invent your own reality aspects of the progressive agenda. I mean, there’s a massive international story on the front pages of papers yesterday and today. They are absolutely off in fantasy land.

Where you’re right is that the rights attach is, well, that… an attack. The cruelty IS the point.

The progressives are just bumbling do gooders who push things too far. But this is kind of treating them with kiddie gloves. Again, look at the major international story today.

The right is trying to tear something down that they see as broken.

Both parties are, as usual, culpable and ignorant of their own contributions to the degradation. They are both childish in their own way, and both willing to put themselves and their beliefs before the mission of academia, which of course, if not about “you” (them)

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