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Judge sets framework for Nine PBS to retrieve archival data

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Re: Judge sets framework for Nine PBS to retrieve archival data

#11

> These archives represent an important part of our region’s history, and we look forward to ensuring their preservation and protection through the Court-approved process. Apparently you didn't find them important enough to have backups. Hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in net income and they couldn't afford a cheap NAS with 4 disks. Incredible.

I wonder the proportion of companies who store backups with a minimum of two separate vendors. Low?

Re: Judge sets framework for Nine PBS to retrieve archival data

#13

> These archives represent an important part of our region’s history, and we look forward to ensuring their preservation and protection through the Court-approved process. Apparently you didn't find them important enough to have backups. Hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in net income and they couldn't afford a cheap NAS with 4 disks. Incredible.

They did, they contracted with a vendor to store and backup the data. If that is insufficient then just about every customer of AWS, Azure, GCP, OCP, and every other managed storage provider is guilty of the same sin.

I have to agree with GP here, this is pretty incredible. They contracted with a vendor to store their data, not to back it up. It's not a backup if you can lose it in the same instant you lose the data.

You're right, they are. If your data can't survive a single storage host vanishing from existence, you don't have a backup. If your data can't survive one predictable or regularly occurring catastrophic act of nature, you don't have a backup. If your data can't survive a piece of malware -- with all of the credentials you have -- erasing it, you don't have a backup.

EDIT: Also, if you don't regularly test that your backups actually work, you probably don't have a backup. Lots of companies learn that one the hard way.

Re: Judge sets framework for Nine PBS to retrieve archival data

#14

> These archives represent an important part of our region’s history, and we look forward to ensuring their preservation and protection through the Court-approved process. Apparently you didn't find them important enough to have backups. Hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in net income and they couldn't afford a cheap NAS with 4 disks. Incredible.

They did, they contracted with a vendor to store and backup the data. If that is insufficient then just about every customer of AWS, Azure, GCP, OCP, and every other managed storage provider is guilty of the same sin.

Then that is just the 1 in 3-2-1 backups, and neglecting the 3 & 2 is a sin (wrt backup strategies).

Re: Judge sets framework for Nine PBS to retrieve archival data

#15

Im curious why this topic has been popping up in the news. It seems like a bog standard contractor/subcontractor obligation case.

The initial reporting implied it was some catastrophic data loss, like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Universal_Studios_fire. The truth, while concerning, is a lot more boring.

Also some articles and people on social media were unclear that it was just a single PBS station involved, rather than all PBS content. I saw comments that thought that all the archives for Sesame Street were lost.

Re: Judge sets framework for Nine PBS to retrieve archival data

#16
I think stories like these highlight the need for clearer (not necessarily more) regulations around contractor/subcontractor/client relationships and what happens when one of them goes tits up.

There were rampant issues in the fintech world that exploded when Synapse, a banking as a service provider, went bankrupt and their ledger didn't match what partner banks had in their accounts. End users were told "your deposits are FDIC insured", but in bankruptcy court the judge was sort of at a loss over how to rectify things - the banks weren't insolvent, and the FDIC (rightfully) said "hey, this isn't our problem, our regulated entities are in compliance". Looks like a similar situation happened here, where the contractors are both doing the "not it" thing.

I feel like a lot of tech innovation and "business process innovation" over the past 15 years was just ignoring regulations that were built up over decades, only discovering the reasons for those regulations when the tide went out and seeing that lots of companies had been pantsless the whole time.

Re: Judge sets framework for Nine PBS to retrieve archival data

#17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did, they contracted with a vendor to store and backup the data. If that is insufficient then just about every customer of AWS, Azure, GCP, OCP, and every other managed storage provider is guilty of the same sin.

I have to agree with GP here, this is pretty incredible. They contracted with a vendor to store their data, not to back it up. It's not a backup if you can lose it in the same instant you lose the data. You're right, they are. If your data can't survive a single storage host vanishing from existence, you don't have a backup. If your data can't survive one predictable or regularly occurring catastrophic act of nature,…

If you do not have at least one, but usually two copies of a backup in your physical possession, you do not have a backup. |o-o|

Re: Judge sets framework for Nine PBS to retrieve archival data

#19
Open Source Storage (OSS), the vendor in question, was around for two decades before going out of business last year. The first and last archived versions of its web site:

https://web.archive.org/web/20040628023451/https://www.ossto...

https://web.archive.org/web/20250329140721/https://www.ossto...

(The first version isn't too exciting. It's a broken Flash site.)

Re: Judge sets framework for Nine PBS to retrieve archival data

#20

Im curious why this topic has been popping up in the news. It seems like a bog standard contractor/subcontractor obligation case.

The initial reporting implied it was some catastrophic data loss, like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Universal_Studios_fire . The truth, while concerning, is a lot more boring. Also some articles and people on social media were unclear that it was just a single PBS station involved, rather than all PBS content. I saw comments that thought that all the archives for Sesame Street were lost.

Apparently PBS doesn't have some kind of massive conglomerate backup or archives of things that its member stations produce. It's up to every station to archive or back up their own stuff. No standardization as to storage formats, NASes, tapes, or anything.

Sometimes things are transmitted in painful ways like rebroadcast in off hours over microwave links between members so they can re-record what they lost.

Plus the endless game of "hey does anyone have that one obscure episode of this one program we made?" to your colleagues...

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