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Cultivating a state of mind where new ideas are born (2023)

henrikkarlsson.xyz

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Re: Cultivating a state of mind where new ideas are born (2023)

#71

Post by ssivark »

inigyou wrote: post #55
andai wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw this video of an American tourist in the Mediterranean, stunned that people would drink one coffee for hours and didn't feel pressured to order more. He said, back home, he would have been getting dirty looks, if he wasn't constantly justifying his existence in a place by either consuming or producing something.

That coffee shop isn't paying much rent. When your local leech increases the rent, you have to sell more coffees, and kick people out who don't buy more coffees.

To expand on this: rent is a manifestation opportunity cost for a gated resource. So one person lounging around drinking coffee is no more judged on their activity in and of itself, but compared to the other "industrious" person who might have taken their place and been more productive. This is why marginal spaces/resources not being optimized for economic output are so important to exploratory and risky endeavors: https://paulgraham.com/marginal.html

Re: Cultivating a state of mind where new ideas are born (2023)

#72

Post by andai »

inigyou wrote: post #55
andai wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw this video of an American tourist in the Mediterranean, stunned that people would drink one coffee for hours and didn't feel pressured to order more. He said, back home, he would have been getting dirty looks, if he wasn't constantly justifying his existence in a place by either consuming or producing something.

That coffee shop isn't paying much rent. When your local leech increases the rent, you have to sell more coffees, and kick people out who don't buy more coffees.

I think they own the place. Another nice thing about being Mediterranean.

Re: Cultivating a state of mind where new ideas are born (2023)

#73

Post by BigGreenJorts »

pendenthistory wrote: post #58
altmanaltman wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand what you're saying but the last line is kind of weird no? Why do you need to villify them if they didn't give you good feedback? Why do you care so much that you have to mention they "have not acheived much themselves, never taken any risk" etc. The entire point of feedback is to see it as impersonal and not a value judgement on you (the creator) vrs the project. Like okay, what if someone was extremely…

I don't mean to vilify them, I think it's just a matter of fact that if you habitually poke 100 holes in any idea, both your own and others, you will do the very safe thing. If someone had taken risks, had ideas, seen some fail some work and they said my idea is bad, I would listen to them more for sure. Maybe my idea is bad, only time will tell. I'm not saying these people are stupid, many of them are smart. I think…

> I don't mean to vilify them, I think it's just a matter of fact that if you habitually poke 100 holes in any idea, both your own and others, you will do the very safe thing.

I always find it so interesting that the same principle can lead to many conclusions. Based on the people I know and my own life, I would have argued the opposite. The people who do not attempt to poke holes in every idea are those that just go with the "default", "safe" option. They have not meaningfully evaluated any options and simply taken face value where the default seems less complex and therefore the lowest risk/highest value (I.e, safe) option.

Re: Cultivating a state of mind where new ideas are born (2023)

#74

Post by 405error »

pendenthistory wrote: post #37

The "new ideas are fragile" is certainly true. I'm struggling with something I'm building which I think is extremely cool but technically difficult, but which if based on the reaction of friends and family I'd abandoned long ago. Only after having worked on it for 2 years and really got it working technically did I see a small spark in my dad's eyes as he said "oh, you can make MONEY off of this?". I feel like I have…

I have a vague recollection of a point someone made before that most ideas are usually wrong or incorrect at the start. For example, Nvidia was built on the thesis that non-triangular polygons would dominate, which was 100% wrong (today all polygons are triangular). But they often develop into something true.

Re: Cultivating a state of mind where new ideas are born (2023)

#75

Post by energy123 »

Espressosaurus wrote: post #68
energy123 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other examples like Grothendieck: Wiles (Fermat), Perelman (Poincare), Newton (calculus), Ramanujan. > Spend too little time and you toil away in a cave, at best reinventing things that were invented already without your knowledge. Grothendieck disputes this point. He reinvented the wheel many times when he was 17-20 years old, but believes it was training for accessing the required cognitive spaces. He says: A few y…

I think the parent's point (and perhaps the article author's point) is that he didn't spend his entire time there. He spent long enough, but not too long before he connected with the existing body of work, but now with a way to bring his own creativity into it.

That's a good thing to note. The same can be said of Newton, Wiles and Perelman.

Grothendieck's later years or more extreme isolation were less productive, same with Perelman, so maybe there's some balance that needs to be struck. Although age is a confound with these two cases.

Re: Cultivating a state of mind where new ideas are born (2023)

#76

Post by altmanaltman »

BigGreenJorts wrote: post #73
pendenthistory wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean to vilify them, I think it's just a matter of fact that if you habitually poke 100 holes in any idea, both your own and others, you will do the very safe thing. If someone had taken risks, had ideas, seen some fail some work and they said my idea is bad, I would listen to them more for sure. Maybe my idea is bad, only time will tell. I'm not saying these people are stupid, many of them are smart. I think…

> I don't mean to vilify them, I think it's just a matter of fact that if you habitually poke 100 holes in any idea, both your own and others, you will do the very safe thing. I always find it so interesting that the same principle can lead to many conclusions. Based on the people I know and my own life, I would have argued the opposite. The people who do not attempt to poke holes in every idea are those that just go…

Exactly and that was sort of my point but I didn't want to push since its a bit of a personal thing but yes if you feel like someone poking a hole in your idea is a "bad thing" and equate it to "they don't believe in me", that creates a very toxic and resentment-based mindset. Whereas in your example, the feedback is just feedback, you don't treat it as something that is personal or has any moral implications. And if you have people willing to go deep and provide feedback (poke holes), it is likely logical to assume at some level they care deeply to at least engage even if its negative feedback. Ego is hard.

Re: Cultivating a state of mind where new ideas are born (2023)

#77

Post by pendenthistory »

405error wrote: post #74
pendenthistory wrote: post #37

The "new ideas are fragile" is certainly true. I'm struggling with something I'm building which I think is extremely cool but technically difficult, but which if based on the reaction of friends and family I'd abandoned long ago. Only after having worked on it for 2 years and really got it working technically did I see a small spark in my dad's eyes as he said "oh, you can make MONEY off of this?". I feel like I have…

I have a vague recollection of a point someone made before that most ideas are usually wrong or incorrect at the start. For example, Nvidia was built on the thesis that non-triangular polygons would dominate, which was 100% wrong (today all polygons are triangular). But they often develop into something true.

Sure, but to find what works you need to take action first. The problem is if you have no support network that encourages you to take action you are more likely not to start or to give up when you face headwinds. That's one reason startups tend to happen in a few hubs. Yes, it's also where VC is, but to get started you need likeminded people who don't reflexively shoot down anything new.

Re: Cultivating a state of mind where new ideas are born (2023)

#78

Post by pendenthistory »

altmanaltman wrote: post #76
BigGreenJorts wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't mean to vilify them, I think it's just a matter of fact that if you habitually poke 100 holes in any idea, both your own and others, you will do the very safe thing. I always find it so interesting that the same principle can lead to many conclusions. Based on the people I know and my own life, I would have argued the opposite. The people who do not attempt to poke holes in every idea are those that just go…

Exactly and that was sort of my point but I didn't want to push since its a bit of a personal thing but yes if you feel like someone poking a hole in your idea is a "bad thing" and equate it to "they don't believe in me", that creates a very toxic and resentment-based mindset. Whereas in your example, the feedback is just feedback, you don't treat it as something that is personal or has any moral implications. And if…

I promise you if you had the experience I've had you would understand what I'm talking about. Especially one friend has gotten me down. I share what I'm doing with him because he's actually in the right industry, just not technical. I've been showing him my technical progress, which may sound delusional, but I'm building something very cool that hasn't been done before, and when generalized has a high potential value. But every time I share I just get negative feedback, not constructive. I don't think he realizes he's doing it, and we're childhood friends. Anyway, I'm convinced this has value so I'm not giving up (I do get good feedback when showing it to potential users), but I would kill for even a "wow, that looks really cool".
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