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The AI Credit Resale Economy
121–130 of 141 posts
Re: The AI Credit Resale Economy
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why do you have this trust? Are they not profit oriented? Or you suspect that Xi's policy push is to undercut American AI?
Are you familiar with Chinas version of capitalism? It is markedly different than “the” western model
There is no "Chinese capitalism" or "Western capitalism" - capitalism is applied thermodynamics, once you remove the limiting factors (both material and political), it's the same everywhere.
Like the 10th Rule of Acquisition says, greed is eternal. Structures and behaviors that flow down from this tend to be the same everywhere.
Re: The AI Credit Resale Economy
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
Open weight SOTA models are not greatly cheaper than Anthropic and providers don't have to cover training capex.
> and providers don't have to cover training capex. How so?
With an open-weights model, anyone with the hardware to run the model can act as a provider. The median provider pays nothing for the model, so they do not contribute to the cost of training it.
Re: The AI Credit Resale Economy
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
Open weight SOTA models are not greatly cheaper than Anthropic and providers don't have to cover training capex.
> and providers don't have to cover training capex. How so?
Providers like Fireworks offer inference, they're not training their own models. Yet training is the most expensive part, inference is easy profit.
Re: The AI Credit Resale Economy
#125The comments here are baffling. Is nobody seeing the easy opportunity for gathering amazing high-quality training data by inserting yourself as a MITM? If I were a competing lab, criminal, or opportunist I'd lie/cheat/steal/simply pay the difference to get the chance to listen into real life scenarios of usage of modern models in a high-impact business. Seems a huge part of the story completely absent to me.
They are just offering API key swaps, not switching endpoints. No scope for mitm there. I'm sure users would only trust API key swaps, if only to be sure what models are actually being served
Re: The AI Credit Resale Economy
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are you familiar with Chinas version of capitalism? It is markedly different than “the” western model
There is no "Chinese capitalism" or "Western capitalism" - capitalism is applied thermodynamics, once you remove the limiting factors (both material and political), it's the same everywhere. Like the 10th Rule of Acquisition says, greed is eternal. Structures and behaviors that flow down from this tend to be the same everywhere.
Once you remove the limiting factors, which is what makes the capitalism be "chinese" or "western".
Re: The AI Credit Resale Economy
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
What happens when the VCs decide to stop dumping more money onto the fire?
Positive unit economics means that inference as a business continues regardless. The VC's no longer dumping money in means no more training new models.
So then the entire industry stagnates and most of the companies go bankrupt because they are all selling hype about what models "will" do in the future, not what they do not, and what they do WELL now is very limited.
Re: The AI Credit Resale Economy
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are you familiar with Chinas version of capitalism? It is markedly different than “the” western model
There is no "Chinese capitalism" or "Western capitalism" - capitalism is applied thermodynamics, once you remove the limiting factors (both material and political), it's the same everywhere. Like the 10th Rule of Acquisition says, greed is eternal. Structures and behaviors that flow down from this tend to be the same everywhere.
The problem with this reading is that Western capitalism has been effectively removing the thermodynamics analogy through monopolism, conglomeration, regulatory capture, etc.
Re: The AI Credit Resale Economy
#129The original article linked in the opening has more context https://vectoral.com/blog/token-relay-market People trading their unused credits feels more genuine, although still in violation of the agreements. The person who got into YC Startup School who was trying to resell the $2500 of credits was interesting. It wouldn’t be that hard for OpenAI to identify the IP addresses of the relays and start flagging accounts,…
Another part of the discount is that Claude Max 20x is $200 but gives usage equivalent to thousands of dollars worth of API-based token spend. But also, resellers only need to make an overall profit including kickbacks from the companies purchasing token history for distillation.
With Claude Max, you have restricted token consumption per timespan (rolling time window measures token consumption in last 5 hrs, will suspend your account if you are above usage). API doesn't have that limitation unless you run out of credit.
Re: The AI Credit Resale Economy
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are you familiar with Chinas version of capitalism? It is markedly different than “the” western model
I am not, but would be interested to hear. Any articles?
"Overcapacity and low profitability" [1] is how I understand the difference, i.e. different competitive ecosystem from a different policy and intervention style.
https://www.dbresearch.com/PROD/IE-PROD/PDFVIEWER.calias?pdf...