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Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinking things

simonwillison.net

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Re: Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinking things

#81
post #66

“The fact that a 17GB file can do all of this stuff on my home machines is a miracle. Once again, I’m delighted and amazed at how much progress local models have made this year.” I think that should be the blinking headline - this shows what can be done with consumer hardware.

his 128gb Ram laptop is quite extreme

Re: Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinking things

#82
post #74
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The recent 'Stolen Thoughts'[1] paper shows many excerpts of private reasoning for frontier models. For a complex maths problem, Sol reasoned in 367 tokens before working: We need solve. Need interpret no person sits next to two other people = among binary string length16 weight8, no occupied chair whose both neighbors occupied, equivalently ab 111 substring. Endpoints cannot have two neighbors anyway; only avoid 111…

All these weird partial language thought patterns im surprised none of the teams have taught the models to think in something like court stenography or some very dense pattern (i mean they even tried caveman language at one point)

Keep in mind that the model is thinking in a token space, itself a compressive representation of language.

(Note: there's still a huge grammar penalty, so, ugh do think small.)

Re: Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinking things

#83
post #66

“The fact that a 17GB file can do all of this stuff on my home machines is a miracle. Once again, I’m delighted and amazed at how much progress local models have made this year.” I think that should be the blinking headline - this shows what can be done with consumer hardware.

his 128gb Ram laptop is quite extreme

It should just about be usable in 32GB.

Re: Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinking things

#84

Am I the only one who enjoys it when LLMs overthink everything? Opus 4.8 would spend like 10 minutes thinking and then go out there and do an excellent job. Only Fable 5 seems to be smart enough to just know everything it needs to immediately start working without any reasoning or verification. Opus 5 tries to be relentless like Fable, but it's not as smart as Fable and I have to constantly challenge and correct its…

Yes, for coding, they aren't overthinking enough. I want much more thinking and less code in the PR! Even with the best frontier models, I still have to guide them towards the right solution. The more thinking they do, the less code they write.

I have quite a complex codebase where I made a lot of nuanced decisions with regards to keeping the processes embarrassingly parallel, DB indexing, caching, async/await, backpressure monitoring, spam prevention, schema validation, etc... and now the agents are really good at adding features on top and prompting is minimal.

If you have a relatively large codebase and never even once cut a corner, then the AI agents tend to follow through with that style and the ratio of reasoning-to-code increases. Worth it.

Re: Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinking things

#85
post #66

“The fact that a 17GB file can do all of this stuff on my home machines is a miracle. Once again, I’m delighted and amazed at how much progress local models have made this year.” I think that should be the blinking headline - this shows what can be done with consumer hardware.

his 128gb Ram laptop is quite extreme

Give it 6 months, the capabilities will increase even further.

Re: Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinking things

#86
post #66

“The fact that a 17GB file can do all of this stuff on my home machines is a miracle. Once again, I’m delighted and amazed at how much progress local models have made this year.” I think that should be the blinking headline - this shows what can be done with consumer hardware.

his 128gb Ram laptop is quite extreme

[deleted]

Re: Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinking things

#87
post #66

“The fact that a 17GB file can do all of this stuff on my home machines is a miracle. Once again, I’m delighted and amazed at how much progress local models have made this year.” I think that should be the blinking headline - this shows what can be done with consumer hardware.

Tried yesterday on my own laptop (a UltraCore 7 255H without dedicated GPU,with 32 GB RAM), it wasn't even starting thinking, even on a small context window (65k)
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