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Models Are Getting Dumber on Purpose

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Re: Models Are Getting Dumber on Purpose

#11

Post by Espressosaurus »

kennywinker wrote: post #6
Gecko4072 wrote: post #3

With all the focus on coding and agentic use, I wonder if the rest of the world will notice or care? Most AI use is not for coding or harnesses contrary to what this website thinks. Maybe this is how American companies stay winning. For example I prefer Kimi K2.6 1T parameter to Flash V4 0731 230B parameter, even if it is less intelligent.

What is the rest of the world using LLMs for? Agentic stuff seems pretty universal. Obviously coding stuff is only interesting to people who want to code, but automating complex digital tasks seems useful in all kinds of contexts.

I’m working at a company where everyone is using LLMs for everything and I’m not aware of anybody using anything truly genetic. It’s all human in the loop babysitting the tool.

Re: Models Are Getting Dumber on Purpose

#12

Post by locknitpicker »

kennywinker wrote: post #4

Ideally what I'd like to see is pluggable knowledge bases. So if I'm e.g. coding a SwiftUI app for navigation, I'd take 9B of basic coding and reasoning, add 10B of swift/swiftUI, add 5B of GIS/geography knowledge and another 5B of frontend app design knowledge. My model doesn't need to know a single line of python. Then when I want to research electronics components, I grab a 15B model of agentic research techniques…

> So if I'm e.g. coding a SwiftUI app for navigation, I'd take 9B of basic coding and reasoning, add 10B of swift/swiftUI, add 5B of GIS/geography knowledge and another 5B of frontend app design knowledge.

Aren't you describing RAG or even MCP servers? Heck, nowadays you get that also with agent skills and specialized tool calling.

Re: Models Are Getting Dumber on Purpose

#13

Post by kennywinker »

msdz wrote: post #9

Great article, even if it will be interesting to see whether things continue to develop in such a direction or not. > There's a version of this future where the model card stops listing a knowledge cutoff at all, because what's left in the weights goes stale on a scale of years instead of weeks. Future? Even just recently I’ve read of two approaches to this problem: Cactus have come up with Needle [0][1], which is th…

That kind of setup is super dependent on a search engine, and search keeps getting worse.

Re: Models Are Getting Dumber on Purpose

#14

Post by Animats »

This makes hallucination detection more important.

There's no reason that an LLM should have a vast number of obscure facts encoded. It can go out to a search engine for such facts. But the LLM has to be clear on what it doesn't know.

(Google's pricing for search from programs starts at $2.50 per 1,000 queries. If an LLM reaches out to Google, it has to pay.)

Re: Models Are Getting Dumber on Purpose

#15

Post by goodmythical »

Gecko4072 wrote: post #7
kennywinker wrote: post #4

Ideally what I'd like to see is pluggable knowledge bases. So if I'm e.g. coding a SwiftUI app for navigation, I'd take 9B of basic coding and reasoning, add 10B of swift/swiftUI, add 5B of GIS/geography knowledge and another 5B of frontend app design knowledge. My model doesn't need to know a single line of python. Then when I want to research electronics components, I grab a 15B model of agentic research techniques…

Sounds like unix philosophy. Or like Neo downloading Kung-Fu. Good either way.

everything is a token

Re: Models Are Getting Dumber on Purpose

#16

Post by ismael_rr »

Gecko4072 wrote: post #3

With all the focus on coding and agentic use, I wonder if the rest of the world will notice or care? Most AI use is not for coding or harnesses contrary to what this website thinks. Maybe this is how American companies stay winning. For example I prefer Kimi K2.6 1T parameter to Flash V4 0731 230B parameter, even if it is less intelligent.

I agree that most AI use in terms of users may not be for coding or agentic use (everyday people are asking chatgpt for something or looking at google ai summary), but with respect to AI usage, I speculate that the vast majority of usage is coding and agentic because they're super token hungry.

In terms of the value proposition of AI replacing knowledge workers, all value is in coding agents (coding agents as general agents).

Re: Models Are Getting Dumber on Purpose

#18

Post by edgyquant »

kennywinker wrote: post #4

Ideally what I'd like to see is pluggable knowledge bases. So if I'm e.g. coding a SwiftUI app for navigation, I'd take 9B of basic coding and reasoning, add 10B of swift/swiftUI, add 5B of GIS/geography knowledge and another 5B of frontend app design knowledge. My model doesn't need to know a single line of python. Then when I want to research electronics components, I grab a 15B model of agentic research techniques…

This would defeat the AGI narrative/belief that so many building these models have

Re: Models Are Getting Dumber on Purpose

#20

Post by gagan2020 »

Intelligence vs Knowledge

LLMs work is being intelligent not having knowledge of everything is ok. But, they have to be intelligent enough (with some degree of knowledge) that where to find the information (search tools or any other tools for that matter)

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