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Show HN: Laptop is the last place your secrets are still in plaintext

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Re: Show HN: Laptop is the last place your secrets are still in plaintext

#81
post #80
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not the author but i can probably answer some of these: > * Most people do not have passwords in plain text — an SSH key protected with a passphrase is not "plain text", for instance I think you'd be surprised how many SWE do actually have plain text secrets. For example, if you do everything correctly with AWS auth, you still have a plain text token in ~/.aws -- it's short lived (typically 8hrs IIRC), but it's s…

Your local development machine will have the source code or images or IaaC configuration that you push to GH/AWS — a rogue agent can just modify that and wait for you to authorize the next push. I'd also consider short-lived tokens "in-memory during use", even if 8h is not very short. If you have AWS keys but do not have anything you use them for, then yes, a tool like this will help. However, the tool seems to imple…

> Your local development machine will have the source code or images or IaaC configuration that you push to GH/AWS — a rogue agent can just modify that and wait for you to authorize the next push.

Yes, but that's then concerning yourself with the remote state and thus the opposite of the sentiment you made when you said:

> I find that I worry more about my local data compared to my remote data

> I'd also consider short-lived tokens "in-memory during use", even if 8h is not very short.

I never said 8hrs was short. And once again, nobody is talking about in-memory use. If that's a legitimate risk you need to cover then VMs or literal air-gapped systems are your only solution. But for clear text in-memory to be a risk you'd then need to be running untrusted executables are root. Which then raises the legitimate question of "why the f*k are you doing that on your main development machine in the first place?!!"

> However, the tool seems to implement per-provider handling, meaning large surface area and new risks replacing old ones. Even standard, trusted crypto libraries are frequently misused in insecure ways.

It sounds more like you're commenting without researching this tool.

Scepticism is definitely a valuable asset when it comes to security. But what you're doing here isn't scepticism. It's just dismissive and presumptuous. The good points you're trying to make are undermined by the really obvious flaws in your assumptions.

> I can certainly explore the code, but as it is a "Show HN", I'd like the author to show it ;)

They have. It's literally the Show HN link to the source and it includes a fair amount of documentation to support the product. The questions of trust you keep raising can only be proven via an independent audit of the code, for example, yourself reading through it.

> My point is to understand clearly where does author believe this tool has merit.

That's right there in the README. And I think you already know this because you touched on another solution to the same problem when you discussed containerisation. Which then brings me back to my earlier point about constructive scepticism vs lazy dismissal.

Re: Show HN: Laptop is the last place your secrets are still in plaintext

#82
post #73
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most people have encrypted home or full disk encryption I don't see the point. Once your home is unlocked, every process can see the file contents

I guess you missed my "containerisation" point: if not restricted, every rogue package or agent has access to your full $HOME too. A secret is there to protect access to data you care about. If that data is there, well, not much achieved. Eg. imagine there's the source code for a service you deploy to AWS — rogue sw can modify it letting you unknowingly update it the next time (or why do you have those AWS keys anywa…

> I guess you missed my "containerisation" point: if not restricted, every rogue package or agent has access to your full $HOME too. A secret is there to protect access to data you care about. If that data is there, well, not much achieved.

There can be multiple processes that might need access to a project root and thus you might still find utility in something like these even inside a container.

In security, we call this "defence in depth".

> Eg. imagine there's the source code for a service you deploy to AWS — rogue sw can modify it letting you unknowingly update it the next time (or why do you have those AWS keys anyway?).

Sure, but then you also wouldn't be using version control either. Nor checking the dryrun plans before applying your new IaC. So it sounds like you're not following any form of rigour at all in such a hypothetical scenario.

> But not if they are part of non-classic Snap on Ubuntu or properly containerised Flatpak (on Linux, at least), or in a VM or LXC/Docker/Podman container.

Nice word soup there but you're misunderstanding the technologies.

- Snap and Flatpak target different problem spaces (application packaging for distribution).

- VMs by themselves wouldn't achieve much because you'd need mounted paths eg if you want one agent to manage code and not also have Terraform to run inside that same VM. While you could manage mounted paths manually, it's really not worth the effort when Docker gives you an easy UI out-of-the-box

- LXC is pretty barebones. It would be like creating a VM in the effort to build repeatable ephemeral environments from it. You can do it, but why would you when OCI has an easy-to-use ecosystem already?

- Docker/Podman, if you wanted to make the distinction, then why not just say "OCI"?

---

I do think scepticism in tech can be healthy. But what you're doing isn't that. It's just dismissing the tech without any effort to understand it. And thus your arguments against it contain a multitude of flaws.

Re: Show HN: Laptop is the last place your secrets are still in plaintext

#83
post #46

I don't get why you would have PRODUCTION secrets in those local .env files. It should only be dev tokens.

This isn't just for local .env files. It can be quite common to need production tokens for cloud systems if you job requires any amount of ops. eg doing anything aws cli work may result in a token stored in ~/.aws

But even that aside, there's still merit in protecting rogue processes from trashing your non-production environments

Re: Show HN: Laptop is the last place your secrets are still in plaintext

#84
post #39
post #9

While this might be a useful tool for Mac users, it's all hackers here, so: * Most people do not have passwords in plain text — an SSH key protected with a passphrase is not "plain text", for instance * Most people have encrypted home or full disk encryption * How can we trust your crypto implementation? * If we are talking about in-memory plain-text during use, how does this tool protect against it? * Containerisati…

I'm not the author but i can probably answer some of these: > * Most people do not have passwords in plain text — an SSH key protected with a passphrase is not "plain text", for instance I think you'd be surprised how many SWE do actually have plain text secrets. For example, if you do everything correctly with AWS auth, you still have a plain text token in ~/.aws -- it's short lived (typically 8hrs IIRC), but it's s…

> This surprises me

The world does not end on SaaS.

Re: Show HN: Laptop is the last place your secrets are still in plaintext

#86

This looks like a really cool idea. But since it's a new project and has all the Claude stuff I immediately feel unsure about the solidity and reliability of a security-critical piece for software like that. I wish I could go back to my pre-LLM levels of skepticism.

A lot of this concern is ersatz and virtue signaling. Do you really think an llm cant code a fork/exec? Or that it can't setup a named pipe?

And what would be the other concerns? That you have a possibly malicious piece of software reading your secrets that you haven't encrypted?

That's literally the raison d'etre of this tool. By definition it's better than nothing.

Re: Show HN: Laptop is the last place your secrets are still in plaintext

#87
post #24

I don't know about how secure this is, but I just love the UX. Scanning and process grant are great features UX-wise.

The medicine did not actually cure my terminal illness, but it surely tasted great and made me feel good about myself.

I don't agree with the analogy. Better UX affects users behaviour and can make a safe path easier for the user than the unsafe one, reducing total number of incidents.

Re: Show HN: Laptop is the last place your secrets are still in plaintext

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only there was a Markdown file in the repo, that explains it. It could have a URL, say, https://github.com/jitpass/jit/blob/main/docs%2Fgetting-star...

Please avoid the snark. I read the readme in full, I think that's an appropriate level of effort. Your link also still doesn't answer it, though it hints: 'A migrated .env is a live mount (a named pipe), not a plain file'. So is that a file system driver, or...? Even https://github.com/jitpass/jit/blob/main/docs/getting-starte... says it's a local encrypted store - and that's repeated many times across the docs Claud…

My apologies, you're right

Re: Show HN: Laptop is the last place your secrets are still in plaintext

#90
post #33

I've moved my secrets to 1Password Environments ( https://www.1password.dev/environments ), which works really well for everyday use. It works with 1password cli ( https://www.1password.dev/cli ) to access for agents/scripts, and I get a nice UI to manage them in the 1password app.

Try adding varlock on top. It fixes some of the rough edges of using 1pass for dev purposes. Lots of neat features. We are 1pass users ourselves so our 1P plugin is quite good.
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