C'mon guys... The kid is not ill. He is angry and pissed of at the world. He has established different society norms for himself and his behaviour is off limits, but he is still in control of his brain and his body. And he understands what he's doing. He is not brain damaged. Don't treat him as one, cuz it would piss me off to.
Thinking the unthinkable
401–410 of 462 posts
Re: Thinking the unthinkable
#402Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There are plenty of mass killings with knives as well. If you completely got rid of semi-auto guns, people would use bolt action guns. If you get rid of those, people will use knives. People have been killing each other since the beginning of time. Mass killings (and attempts) with knives happen. China School attacks 21 deaths in about 8 attacks (upto 8 deaths in a single attack), Alaska 2008 killed 4, Korea 2008 (…
>You don't see 26 dead in a single knife attack. I suspect you could if they attacked 5 year olds in a kindergarten class room. >"Crazy people" is a nebulous concept which while sometimes perfectly normal at other times people switch between sane and crazy depending on body chemistry, legal medication, infection, illegal drugs, life events and sometimes we just don't know. Is it conceivable that lower availability of…
Several of the cases I mentioned are exactly attacks of 5 or 6 year old school children. They resulted in between zero (Wolverhampton, UK) and 8 deaths (one of the Chinese attacks) it seems (with a greater number of injuries but still typically much less than 26).
Yes, YOU are perfectly safe with guns at the moment. But what if you are taking anti-malarial medicine or something else that throws you off balance? Having a gun might make the difference between you shootings somebody (possibly yourself) and breaking your legs jumping of the roof or wounding someone with a knife. And then we get onto the aggregate impact of those initially less stable than yourself.
4 shotgun shells might do a huge amount of damage in crowded area but in a crowded area someone can jump on you while you stop to reload. In a sparsely populated area with a car to keep mobile in you can still do a lot of damage (Cumbria, UK 2010) but I suspect less than with more capable weapons.
In the UK there isn't anywhere to steal such weapons from apart from the police, army and criminals (but even criminals very rarely use or carry guns because the punishments for getting caught with them are high). Also such theft would need planning and time in which he may have been caught or his state of mind may have changed.
There is no doubt in my mind that in the UK with our laws the death toll in an attack similar to the one last week in the US would have been lower due to the lack of availability of guns. Children and carers/teachers may still have died but not in such numbers. It is more arguable that there imposition of restrictions is too much of a burden on freedom for the benefit but saying there is no benefit is pure denial.
I find the self defence arguments unconvincing in general although it is hard to prove. Transitioning from the US situation to the UK one especially given the geography of the US would be challenging and complicated
Genuine questions
1) In the US is his mother criminally or civilly liable for not preventing his access to the weapons?
2) Do you think that she should be?
Re: Thinking the unthinkable
#403Earlier quoted context omitted.
In Urdu we have a proverb it translates to English as - "Treat your teachers beating, as a garland you could receive in the future". I agree corporal punishment is cruelty. But some minimal beating must be allowed to put things in order. My mom is a teacher, and back here in the past and to some extent now. Beating kids in school in India was the norm. She tells me many parents would come ask the teachers to not beat…
"Spare the stick and spoil the child" That proverb is misapplied. When you look at the original Hebrew in context the stick was a guiding stick not a beating stick. A guiding stick is one used for gentle nudges to keep someone on the right path. Basically the proverb is saying: An unguided child is a spoiled child. Today is is often interpreted: An unbeaten child is a spoiled child. However, this is not the original…
Interesting interpretation.
Apropo:
תהילים פרק כג' פסוק 4 גַּם כִּי-אֵלֵךְ בְּגֵיא צַלְמָוֶת לֹא-אִירָא רָע כִּי-אַתָּה עִמָּדִי שִׁבְטְךָ וּמִשְׁעַנְתֶּךָ הֵמָּה יְנַחֲמֻנִי
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for Thou art with me; {N} Thy rod and Thy staff, they comfort me.
Re: Thinking the unthinkable
#404> “Then I’m going to kill myself,” he said. I remember doing that. > He’s been on a slew of antipsychotic and mood altering pharmaceuticals, a Russian novel of behavioral plans. Nothing seems to work. I remember that. > A few weeks ago, Michael..threatened to kill me I did that too. She forgot to mention the time(s) he threatened to run away. (I'd be surprised if he didn't.) After a marathon of transfers, expulsions,…
I like this story because it illustrates that there are lots of ranges for normal and that parents often make the difference but I do want to make it clear that many mental health situations can't just simply be snapped out of.
Upvoted primarily because "parents often make the difference" alludes to the wider context, the systems context, which includes the parents and other individuals and groups and society in general.
Re: Thinking the unthinkable
#405Earlier quoted context omitted.
> She liked to go shooting with a Glock?? Yes??? What do you think a glock is, just out of curiosity? It's a completely boring handgun. Semi-automatic doesn't mean what you think it does. Basically all modern guns are semi-automatic. It's a broad classification.
> It's a completely boring handgun That's the point. "Boring" means failsafe: good for the shooter, not so good for the victims. A gun that would threaten to explode in the face of the shooter every other round, or that would make it almost impossible to hit the target, would be completely non-boring. It would also make it a poor choice to carry on a mass-shooting. The Glock is the Mercedes of guns.
Hm, I'm afraid I don't totally understand your point. Why shouldn't a recreational shooter want reliability?
Re: Thinking the unthinkable
#406Earlier quoted context omitted.
I went to a boarding school in Ireland for a year, and they had a uniform -- but it was a uniform, not a "policy". There was one pair of trousers, one shirt and one pullover allowed, and they were provided by the school. This was fine with me; it was a very clear rule with only one interpretation possible, and it was completely external to my relation with my parents or in fact authority in general. You had to wear a…
> I feel everything is about her, not him, and that's why he's so upset. Indeed. It seems that the son has an exemption from the uniform policy ("They told me I could wear these" he insisted), the mother has this desire to make the child conform, and is insufficiently introspective to examine her own motivations ("my 13-year old son ... missed his bus because he was wearing the wrong color pants"). Hey, he missed the…
You think the kid who thought threatening his mom with a knife was acceptable wouldn't tell a petty lie?
Re: Thinking the unthinkable
#407Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have a genetic disorder, as does my oldest son. It is homozygous recessive, which means my youngest son and ex husband are carriers. Both my kids were extremely challenging to raise and I ended up homeschooling them both, in part to not have my family wind up being "the next Columbine" in the headlines. I have a long list of ornery relatives and have a fair degree of familiarity with physical traits with known psyc…
Taking the US as an example, how many Americans share a lineage that can be traced back to the pilgrims? I would venture that the majority of the population comes from immigrants outside of the parameters that you provide. Does this higher incidence of 'maverick behaviour' come from a minority of the population?
You don't really need to be descended from a pilgrim. Most people who immigrate have a higher tolerance for risk than those who stay behind. Going to a strange land, with new rules, is very risky and challenging. Some people find ways to mitigate that risk, like marrying an American and then coming here. But it is still a huge life changing thing where you don't really know the outcome.
Re: Thinking the unthinkable
#408C'mon guys... The kid is not ill. He is angry and pissed of at the world. He has established different society norms for himself and his behaviour is off limits, but he is still in control of his brain and his body. And he understands what he's doing. He is not brain damaged. Don't treat him as one, cuz it would piss me off to.
I feel very similarly. I knew kids who threatened to kill themselves and swore at their parents. They were bad kids, but not mentally ill.
Discipline is something that needs to be taught from a young age. I've seen it do wonders for autistic children (but definitely not cure them), and I have no doubt that learning to live with and manage a mental illness is better than attempting to treat it. Psychiatry is still a very ham-fisted science.
Re: Thinking the unthinkable
#409> “Then I’m going to kill myself,” he said. I remember doing that. > He’s been on a slew of antipsychotic and mood altering pharmaceuticals, a Russian novel of behavioral plans. Nothing seems to work. I remember that. > A few weeks ago, Michael..threatened to kill me I did that too. She forgot to mention the time(s) he threatened to run away. (I'd be surprised if he didn't.) After a marathon of transfers, expulsions,…
> He came out of her office ... still sobbing a little. It hurt me to see this. He didn't deserve that, and it was all my fault.
You feel remorse and thus aren't a psychopath.
Re: Thinking the unthinkable
#410Earlier quoted context omitted.
Switzerland is a great example, thanks for bringing it up! As you point out, Switzerland has an overall rate of violence that is quite low, for example slightly lower than that of Germany ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentiona... ). However, surprise, surprise, it has a "firearm-related" violence level that is 3x that of Germany, and more than 8x the gun-related homicides. Could that have anyt…
>> However, surprise, surprise, it has a "firearm-related" violence level that is 3x that of Germany, and more than 8x the gun-related homicides. Could that have anything to do with the fact that the Swiss have their Army rifles at home? What you are saying is that if the firearms are available, some of them will be used for violence. If not, the same (actually, slightly higher) level of violence will be achieved by…
"What you are saying is that if the firearms are available, some of them will be used for violence."
No, I am saying that greater availability of firearms is correlated with greater number of deaths caused by guns. Lower availability of firearms is correlated with lower number of deaths by guns. Not the same thing.
"If not, the same (actually, slightly higher) level of violence will be achieved by other means."
No. A country that is otherwise much more peaceful and has less crime (Switzerland) has many more gun-related deaths and also has more guns available than another (Germany, UK).
"It would be smarter to think what could prevent the next accident, but who I am to give advice to experts? After all, those are probably the same experts that make men dressed in uniforms grab my balls and feel my ass each time I fly, for the benefit of my security of course. Nobody can argue with this level of expertise."
Nope, not at all the same experts. You are talking about the TSA, I am talking about the FAA, NTSB and related. I am certain they would appreciate your thoughtful input.