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AI isn’t outthinking mathematicians, it’s out-remembering them

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Re: AI isn’t outthinking mathematicians, it’s out-remembering them

#381

Post by josephg »

hibikir wrote: post #198

I suspect that a lot about what we call being very intelligent is ultimately out-remembering people around us. I think of all the times in my software career when I did something that others considered very high performance, it either came down to either having more energy than others at tackling a problem they thought was more trouble than it was worth, or just bringing back random knowledge from previous jobs or se…

People who study intelligence differentiate between fluid intelligence (plastic intelligence) and crystallised intelligence. The former is the ability to learn and form new ideas. The latter is - as you said - memory. Knowing lots of stuff.

They’re positively correlated. Presumably because people who have good plastic intelligence often end up learning more throughout their lifetime. The only way to form knowledge in our minds is by learning it.

Re: AI isn’t outthinking mathematicians, it’s out-remembering them

#382

Post by a2ff6eeb0 »

donbox wrote: post #158
atleastoptimal wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If humans have nothing to contribute then shared understanding is a pointless endeavor. It makes sense now in the "centaur" period where human + AI > AI alone, but when AI mathematicians are both more rigorous and more elegant, then taking the time dumbing down their proofs to a human level of understanding is like requiring that we ensure all our current proofs be understandable by a monkey.

But but but... Does not AI exists (or has to exist) to only serve us.

I suppose it could compete with us.

Re: AI isn’t outthinking mathematicians, it’s out-remembering them

#383

Post by [deleted] »

andai wrote: post #361
grahamburger wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have told me I was smart since I was a kid, but I can't remember for shit. I had a thought when I was fairly young that the only reason I was (maybe, sometimes) outperforming others intellectually is that I was habitually compensating for my poor memory by working things out on the fly, while others could rely more on rote memorization. Anyway, takes all kinds I guess!

I'm in a similar boat. I end up re-learning the same things over and over again. I found a solution recently. "Critical mass." If I just don't see something frequently enough, my brain keeps deleting it. So, if there's a fact you have trouble remembering, try memorizing it 100 times in one day. That's "inefficient", as far as memory goes, but it'll do the trick! And I like solving problems once and then moving on. (A…

[deleted]

Re: AI isn’t outthinking mathematicians, it’s out-remembering them

#385

Post by josephg »

nkrisc wrote: post #302
yesco wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat tangential, but this reminds me of when I took a certain Microbiology midterm in college. I hadn't put much effort into that class leading up to it, as I had some tough CS classes that consumed my focus that semester (also was admittedly not a great student in general). So when I finally went to take the midterm, after cramming like mad before the exam, I quickly realized I basically didn't know the answer t…

> I just kept doing multiple passes through it, each time I noticed one of my answers contradicted one of the others, I would make adjustments to harmonize, which indirectly refined my understanding. This strategy saved my ass on so many tests from high school through college that I did not study properly for. I think it would certainly be possible to write a test such that this strategy doesn’t work at all, but luck…

There was a couple famous papers from a few years ago asking why computer science students, sorted by ability, seemed to form two clusters.

In one of the studies they got incoming CS students to fill out a multiple choice exam on programming, before the class had even started. Then they looked for hints in their exam results to see if they predicted the end of semester grade.

Turned out following this strategy was an incredibly strong predictor of success in computer science. Some students somehow got 0 (or close to it) in the multiple choice test. But the researchers looked at their answers, and could see that the student was forming hypotheses about the questions. Even if they got all the answers wrong, they answered all of them with a consistent idea of what the computer programs might have meant.

Weak students just answered each question individually based on vibe, without using what they learned (or figured out) from other questions.

Re: AI isn’t outthinking mathematicians, it’s out-remembering them

#386

Post by cgio »

grahamburger wrote: post #210
hibikir wrote: post #198

I suspect that a lot about what we call being very intelligent is ultimately out-remembering people around us. I think of all the times in my software career when I did something that others considered very high performance, it either came down to either having more energy than others at tackling a problem they thought was more trouble than it was worth, or just bringing back random knowledge from previous jobs or se…

People have told me I was smart since I was a kid, but I can't remember for shit. I had a thought when I was fairly young that the only reason I was (maybe, sometimes) outperforming others intellectually is that I was habitually compensating for my poor memory by working things out on the fly, while others could rely more on rote memorization. Anyway, takes all kinds I guess!

You maybe work things out on the fly by matching against abstract patterns. Could this be an indication not of lack of memory but of specialisation in abstract memory?

Re: AI isn’t outthinking mathematicians, it’s out-remembering them

#387

Post by DiscourseFan »

aurareturn wrote: post #100
tengbretson wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

String theory is a great example of a dead end kept alive by ego and sunk cost fallacy. An AI would have declared it dead and moved on 10 years earlier.

When people make these comments about string theory, are they at the forefront of quantum physics theory and have spent years on modern string theory? Or did they just watch a YouTube video and then keep parroting this?

I agree but I think it’s a little hopeful to believe AI will save string theory

Re: AI isn’t outthinking mathematicians, it’s out-remembering them

#388

Post by boringg »

gcanyon wrote: post #366
andai wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in a similar boat. I end up re-learning the same things over and over again. I found a solution recently. "Critical mass." If I just don't see something frequently enough, my brain keeps deleting it. So, if there's a fact you have trouble remembering, try memorizing it 100 times in one day. That's "inefficient", as far as memory goes, but it'll do the trick! And I like solving problems once and then moving on. (A…

I find my memory is very selective. I wanted to get in touch with a coworker from five years ago: I had to look up his name on linkedin. My wife texted me "Hotlips died" and with no effort I texted back, "Oh no, Loretta Swit or Sally Kellerman?" Mind you, I haven't watched MASH the TV show in forever, and I haven't seen MASH the movie since my parents took me when it first came out. I have zero reason to remember Lor…

Isnt that kind of like older memories get a strong imprint -- as you get older there are so many memories in the database that the imprint isn't as powerful as earlier ones. I think it works kind of as a function of kind of sensory component of memory implying that new memories aren't new to you therefore less powerful (obviously high variance and person dependent).

Re: AI isn’t outthinking mathematicians, it’s out-remembering them

#389

Post by copperx »

aetherspawn wrote: post #326
hibikir wrote: post #198

I suspect that a lot about what we call being very intelligent is ultimately out-remembering people around us. I think of all the times in my software career when I did something that others considered very high performance, it either came down to either having more energy than others at tackling a problem they thought was more trouble than it was worth, or just bringing back random knowledge from previous jobs or se…

In line with the other comment on this post: I also am classified as “brilliant” by people and IQ tests. My country gave me an award for being a great inventor. But my memory is worse than anyone I know. I can’t remember the lyrics to any songs, or the lines from any movies, or what I’m doing this week. I don’t think it’s a strong hypothesis. My wife has a nearly eidetic memory, so marrying her was a game changer for…

How do you complement each other in memory? I guess I can imagine, but it would be cool to know.

Re: AI isn’t outthinking mathematicians, it’s out-remembering them

#390

Post by groundzeros2015 »

bragr wrote: post #220
grahamburger wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have told me I was smart since I was a kid, but I can't remember for shit. I had a thought when I was fairly young that the only reason I was (maybe, sometimes) outperforming others intellectually is that I was habitually compensating for my poor memory by working things out on the fly, while others could rely more on rote memorization. Anyway, takes all kinds I guess!

We sort kids into the smart and non-smart labels when they are young, and those labels tend to stick, even when what we're measuring isn't raw intelligence but just variance in childhood development that wash out in the long term. I don't think either group is well served by this.

No we don't. Public schools are incentivized not to help high performers. It actually hurts their metrics and budget. The widespread gifted/talented experience in public school ended in the late 90s.

The actual intelligence segregation is self-selected. PMC parents live together in the same neighborhoods. Whether you believe in genetic or social factors, the smart kids come from here.

In the 80s and 90s there was an educational culture that believed in finding overlooked geniuses regardless of where they are from. That narrative is completely dead. All institutions expect kids to come prepared with a resume from their youth, and have few avenues for identifying talent that doesn't meet their mold.

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