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In 1962, Egypt's Missile Program Lost Its Key Scientist Without a Trace

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Re: In 1962, Egypt's Missile Program Lost Its Key Scientist Without a Trace

#61

Post by flohofwoe »

vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #58
flohofwoe wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny enough the uploader has made that video unavailable in Germany (OTRAG was a German company, the first private/commercial aerospace company about 3 decades before SpaceX). Scott Manley has a video about them, and that's also available in Germany ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed4w4Cz5ccU PS: GP probably meant this one (this is just the trailer of a German documentary from 2018): https://www.youtube.com/watch…

Kind of sad that they didn’t work out. I really wish German industry had a little more willpower to get things done instead of giving up so easily. That’s one strength of the US. They just keep marching forward and have enough investors that are willing to take the risk.

The US didn't have a (successful) private aerospace company in the 1970s either (AFAIK). The whole thing was simply too early to be a realistic business.

It's not that the private sector gave up entirely though (e.g. see https://isaraerospace.com/), but of course it's incredibly hard to enter a market that's dominated by a handful heavily subsidized and state/military-sponsored companies (and that includes SpaceX).

But I have a feeling that at least the braindrain from Europe towards the US will not be quite as extreme in the future as it was in the last 90 years.

Also:

> I really wish German industry had a little more willpower

I think it's less about company willpower but about (investment) money, and of course every idea must make business sense. That whole balancing act between 'must quickly become a viable business' versus 'how much investment money is available to burn on failed experiments' happens on a much smaller scale in Europe compared to the US (and a lot of European investment money is being burned in the US instead of Europe, and this clearly would need to change first).

Re: In 1962, Egypt's Missile Program Lost Its Key Scientist Without a Trace

#62

Post by __rito__ »

buran77 wrote: post #8
Lucasoato wrote: post #5

[flagged]

> hunting its top scientists [...] this discourages other scientists from following that career path I take it you mean this literally (assassinations) rather than figuratively (getting hired by the competition). > In recent years US has been hit so hard Any evidence of this? Other than the storm in a cup that was the recent news of "dead scientists" that turned out to be a nothingburger. The idea sounds very plausib…

In India, there is Bhava Atomic Research Center (BARC) where many scientists mysteriously drop dead. Too many car crashes, too many heart attacks an suicides at young age.

We know how.

This does discourage real people to take up positions there.

Latest was my childhood friend; after his Master's from a reputed institutions, did not ultimately appear at a BARC interview and is now a PhD student in a really good institution.

This does happen.

Re: In 1962, Egypt's Missile Program Lost Its Key Scientist Without a Trace

#64

Post by TitaRusell »

ecshafer wrote: post #51

The wonderful book "Rise and Kill First" is a history of Israeli assassinations, with their policy of going after the "head of the snake". There are some interesting sections on how Israel used assassination to inhibit missile programs in the Middle East, including Egypt. Its a pretty easy read despite being long.

Not much of an achievement when you can't hit back without the Western world responding.

Not many people know this but it was not Cuba, Korea, Vietnam or Berlin that got NATO closest to WW3. It was Israel. For the USSR the Jews in the desert were just another proxy war sideshow for Europe it was non negotiable.

Re: In 1962, Egypt's Missile Program Lost Its Key Scientist Without a Trace

#66

Post by bigyabai »

ecshafer wrote: post #51

The wonderful book "Rise and Kill First" is a history of Israeli assassinations, with their policy of going after the "head of the snake". There are some interesting sections on how Israel used assassination to inhibit missile programs in the Middle East, including Egypt. Its a pretty easy read despite being long.

More wonderful yet is Seymour Hersh's Samson Option, outlining how Israeli spies hijacked America's intelligence agencies to support this double-standard. Those agents provided the necessary diplomatic cover for Israel to make their initial incursions into satellite intelligence and nuclear weaponry, which started the strategic imbalance that would endanger civilians in the Levant for decades to come. You can see shadows of the same US/Israel relationship in the China/Iran axis, wherein China's intelligence agencies successfully launder support for humanitarian crises like Gaza, while strategically bolstering Iran with air defenses and satellite intelligence.

Hersh's best work since unveiling Abu Ghraib. Highly recommend it over the super-spy biographies, especially since Hersh didn't have to go through Israel's Military Censor like Bergman did.

Re: In 1962, Egypt's Missile Program Lost Its Key Scientist Without a Trace

#67

Post by WalterGR »

monster_truck wrote: post #63

A concerning number of stateside scientists working on hypersonics have died or vanished under questionable circumstances in a rather short timeframe recently. It's probably nothing, I wouldn't look into it

You're referring to this conspiracy theory? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_scientists_conspiracy_...

Re: In 1962, Egypt's Missile Program Lost Its Key Scientist Without a Trace

#68

Post by throwaway27448 »

WalterGR wrote: post #54
throwaway27448 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well is it suspicious or noise? Do you have a link?

This is a decent place to start: “FBI looks into dead or missing scientists tied to NASA, Blue Origin, SpaceX” (fortune.com) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47858246 233 points | 3 months ago | 170 comments

Hm. That seems rather inconclusive. Thank you.

Re: In 1962, Egypt's Missile Program Lost Its Key Scientist Without a Trace

#69

Post by afpx »

monster_truck wrote: post #63

A concerning number of stateside scientists working on hypersonics have died or vanished under questionable circumstances in a rather short timeframe recently. It's probably nothing, I wouldn't look into it

It just may be that they've been pulled from duty.

I haven't looked into those scientists in particular, but a few years ago I did some OSINT on others that had funerals. I was surprised to find a couple of them living in other countries with different identities.

The social media posts on their funerals were rich sources of data. So, I think some don't have funerals anymore because of the PII leakage.

If any of you were in gifted programs during the 70s and 80s, you may have experienced being scouted by intelligence agencies or at least witnessing others being scouted. I suspect the gifted program was largely created for that purpose. So, at least some exceptional scientists who grew up in that era have connections with intel.

Re: In 1962, Egypt's Missile Program Lost Its Key Scientist Without a Trace

#70

Post by WhereIsTheTruth »

flohofwoe wrote: post #57
WhereIsTheTruth wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The definition has shifted towards socioeconomic descriptor, nobody uses the old definition because it's no longer WW2

> nobody uses the old definition because it's no longer WW2 These are Cold War terms (post WW2). And for the Cold War era it makes sense to use the original meaning. IMHO the term "3rd world country" shouldn't be used in the first place when talking about the time after the early 1990s though. It's misleading and the "modern" meaning comes with a hefty whiff of implied racism/colonialism.

I agree
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