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The other Sean Byrne doesn't exist

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Re: The other Sean Byrne doesn't exist

#41

Post by larsnystrom »

pibaker wrote: post #37
Aozora7 wrote: post #26

This is one of the obvious consequences of not having a national identity number assigned to everyone at birth, which exist in most developed countries, except for anglosphere, for some reason.

Objection to ID numbers as a concept aside, I don't think it actually solves the problem this author faced. Fake identities are dime a dozen. It is not exactly hard for an illicit entity to just put some random ID numbers it bought off the dark web on its books. And now you have just made it even harder for the people who had their identities stolen to clear themselves. How do you convince some company drone doing sa…

If they put an ID on a sanction list, there’s a possibility to verify it. They could verify that it actually belongs to the person they want to sanction before putting it on the list. Failing that, the actual person can prove that they don’t belong on the list by verifying their identity.

Verifying identity is a much simpler problem than establishing identity.

Re: The other Sean Byrne doesn't exist

#42

Post by foxglacier »

yassa9 wrote: post #32
Aozora7 wrote: post #26

This is one of the obvious consequences of not having a national identity number assigned to everyone at birth, which exist in most developed countries, except for anglosphere, for some reason.

in Egypt, every person is born with a universal national ID number , which is standardized everywhere here, but it created some problems, it became extremely valuable to attackers. If leaked, it can be reused across completely different services ( and you can never change it under anycase ) Having the full name + national ID was enough to bypass verification and activate various services, and many people weren't tech…

Clearly it was the services that weren't tech-savvy using a non-changeable non-secret ID as some kind of authentication. Can't blame the users here.

Re: The other Sean Byrne doesn't exist

#43

Post by Aozora7 »

rendall wrote: post #35
Extropy_ wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to be a little less vague? Maybe a little more helpful?

A government may have entirely benign reasons for creating a comprehensive population database, but you cannot guarantee who will control that database later. You have to trust the people who control it, not only now, but at all times in the future, but history does not support that. Nazi Germany and occupied forces used census data, municipal population registers, etc., to identify and track down targeted people. Th…

A government won't give up on malicious acts just because it lacks accurate census. The United States does a lot more surveillance and oppression than EU countries that have national ID and mandatory ID documents.

The lack of a comprehensive population database only seems to hinder the actual useful civilian bureaucracy, not law enforcement, intelligence services, or ICE. The latter just grab anyone who looks brown enough.

Re: The other Sean Byrne doesn't exist

#44

Post by bagels »

Aozora7 wrote: post #26

This is one of the obvious consequences of not having a national identity number assigned to everyone at birth, which exist in most developed countries, except for anglosphere, for some reason.

He has a passport with a number on it. Why isn't that sufficient? There are also multiple countries involved in this story.

Re: The other Sean Byrne doesn't exist

#45

Post by po1nt »

Aozora7 wrote: post #26

This is one of the obvious consequences of not having a national identity number assigned to everyone at birth, which exist in most developed countries, except for anglosphere, for some reason.

Attaching numbers to people is unbelievably creepy. My identity is not a number. We recoil at the idea of having assigned and tattooed numbers on our bodies and I don't feel it's okay to do it, just so you could maybe avoid misidentification.

Re: The other Sean Byrne doesn't exist

#46

Post by pibaker »

larsnystrom wrote: post #41
pibaker wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Objection to ID numbers as a concept aside, I don't think it actually solves the problem this author faced. Fake identities are dime a dozen. It is not exactly hard for an illicit entity to just put some random ID numbers it bought off the dark web on its books. And now you have just made it even harder for the people who had their identities stolen to clear themselves. How do you convince some company drone doing sa…

If they put an ID on a sanction list, there’s a possibility to verify it. They could verify that it actually belongs to the person they want to sanction before putting it on the list. Failing that, the actual person can prove that they don’t belong on the list by verifying their identity. Verifying identity is a much simpler problem than establishing identity.

> If they put an ID on a sanction list, there’s a possibility to verify it

They didn't care to figure out if the Sean Byrne of County Sligo actually existed before putting the name on the list. I doubt they would bother verifying an ID number.

Plus, going back to my point about the list being full of foreigners, how do you verify the validity of a foreign ID number and address? Maybe Ireland is going to comply with a US request, but many other countries won't, and you are now back to square one.

Re: The other Sean Byrne doesn't exist

#47

Post by ramraj07 »

po1nt wrote: post #45
Aozora7 wrote: post #26

This is one of the obvious consequences of not having a national identity number assigned to everyone at birth, which exist in most developed countries, except for anglosphere, for some reason.

Attaching numbers to people is unbelievably creepy. My identity is not a number. We recoil at the idea of having assigned and tattooed numbers on our bodies and I don't feel it's okay to do it, just so you could maybe avoid misidentification.

Why did it need to go to tattooed numbers?

Also the implication that cultures and countries which have happily accepted id numbers are filled with non individualistic people is it?

Re: The other Sean Byrne doesn't exist

#48

Post by ramraj07 »

neximo64 wrote: post #31
Aozora7 wrote: post #26

This is one of the obvious consequences of not having a national identity number assigned to everyone at birth, which exist in most developed countries, except for anglosphere, for some reason.

Its not as if it even helps since the numbers can be leaked and stolen and then abused & the situation ends up even worse since it is so centralised.

In most countries you cant do anything with a single number id of a person. Except ironically the US so youre doubly so off.

Re: The other Sean Byrne doesn't exist

#49

Post by ramraj07 »

foxglacier wrote: post #42
yassa9 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in Egypt, every person is born with a universal national ID number , which is standardized everywhere here, but it created some problems, it became extremely valuable to attackers. If leaked, it can be reused across completely different services ( and you can never change it under anycase ) Having the full name + national ID was enough to bypass verification and activate various services, and many people weren't tech…

Clearly it was the services that weren't tech-savvy using a non-changeable non-secret ID as some kind of authentication. Can't blame the users here.

This is the SSN in the US too though.

Re: The other Sean Byrne doesn't exist

#50

Post by pibaker »

ramraj07 wrote: post #47
po1nt wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Attaching numbers to people is unbelievably creepy. My identity is not a number. We recoil at the idea of having assigned and tattooed numbers on our bodies and I don't feel it's okay to do it, just so you could maybe avoid misidentification.

Why did it need to go to tattooed numbers? Also the implication that cultures and countries which have happily accepted id numbers are filled with non individualistic people is it?

> Why did it need to go to tattooed numbers

Many countries have laws about having to carry an ID on you all the time. Not as bad as a tattoo, but still not acceptable IMO.

> Also the implication that cultures and countries which have happily accepted id numbers are filled with non individualistic people is it?

Are we really gonna keep pretending there are no differences between cultures?

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