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'Not acceptable': Judge orders Google to make rival app store installs easier

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Re: 'Not acceptable': Judge orders Google to make rival app store installs easier

#41

Post by lern_too_spel »

inigyou wrote: post #20
kotaKat wrote: post #17

Anyone else noticed that every single other company that had a bone to pick against Apple or Google (companies like Match and Spotify) haven't been saying shit lately about any of this? It's always still just Epic Games being whiny and pissy? Kinda weird. I guess once Spotify got 300+ million paid subscribers they lost the plot themselves on what they were fighting for (and haven't given us things like promised AirPl…

They're probably afraid to get banned by Google (which is guaranteed to happen and they did ban Epic), lose all their revenue and go out of business before the lawsuit finishes (Epic's is still going after years and years)

You're misremembering. Epic's entire developer account got banned by Apple.

https://www.epicgames.com/site/news/apple-terminated-epic-s-...

Google removed one of Epic's apps (not the entire developer account) from the Play Store for violating policies that the judge has since struck down.

Re: 'Not acceptable': Judge orders Google to make rival app store installs easier

#42

Post by NewJazz »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #37
NewJazz wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does app verification mean to you? Does it involve sending a copy of your ID to google? Because imho that alone is a problem.

> Because imho that alone is a problem. That is already required to list an app on the Play Store. What app verification means is that if you've done that, you don't have to distribute through the play store. People can install your app (or app store) from your website and not get a scary warning about whether to allow installs for apps downloaded from your browser, as required by the judge's ruling. Nothing else cha…

Why do you think it is your place to tell people where to prioritize their personal lobbying efforts?

Btw very few of the apps on my phone are from the play store, so not sure what you're on about.

Re: 'Not acceptable': Judge orders Google to make rival app store installs easier

#43

Post by ColdStream »

chapz wrote: post #11
lern_too_spel wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN in general has completely misunderstood app verification. App verification is what allows rival app stores to be installed without a warning, even if they aren't installed from a system app store. It is a direct result of this ruling. It's still possible to install any app with a warning. A future Google Android build will require developer mode to be enabled to install those apps. That is the problem to address,…

App verification means, Google can deny apps entry into Android for whatever reason Google comes up with. There are no clear and objective rules nor are there any real options to object. And that is the problem. Google can just deny anything that does stuff in a creative new way or that poses a competitive risk. And, if Google decides you are not comming in, there is no warning you can click to go around that.

I do fear for all these youtube alternative app developers. If I was building them, no way am I handing over my personal ID to Google. They would leverage that almost immediately.

Re: 'Not acceptable': Judge orders Google to make rival app store installs easier

#44

Post by rcxdude »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #39
em-bee wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the whole point of using an alternative app store is to be able to install apps that are NOT approved by google. if google is the only allowed arbiter of what may be installed then we are no better off then using the google play store, because i find it highly unlikely that google would approve an app that it would not allow on the play store as well. (ok, sure, an alternate app store would also get around google tak…

> the whole point of using an alternative app store is to be able to install apps that are NOT approved by google No, the whole point of using an alternative app store is to get better deals for developers or end users. Apps that are not approved by Google can still be installed. The whole point of app verification is to allow installation outside a system app store (e.g., directly from a website or from another app…

You say this like the scary warnings aren't an entirely artificial barrier by google. Before the app verification, I could install apps from freedroid just fine without any scary warnings.

Re: 'Not acceptable': Judge orders Google to make rival app store installs easier

#45

Post by lern_too_spel »

NewJazz wrote: post #42
lern_too_spel wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because imho that alone is a problem. That is already required to list an app on the Play Store. What app verification means is that if you've done that, you don't have to distribute through the play store. People can install your app (or app store) from your website and not get a scary warning about whether to allow installs for apps downloaded from your browser, as required by the judge's ruling. Nothing else cha…

Why do you think it is your place to tell people where to prioritize their personal lobbying efforts? Btw very few of the apps on my phone are from the play store, so not sure what you're on about.

> Why do you think it is your place to tell people where to prioritize their personal lobbying efforts?

If you lobby for something that is obviously nonsensical, you are wasting your time. I am educating people in order to prevent them from wasting their time and hopefully accomplish something useful instead.

> Btw very few of the apps on my phone are from the play store, so not sure what you're on about.

If you use a Google Android build, your life gets strictly easier because of app verification. That's what I'm on about.

Re: 'Not acceptable': Judge orders Google to make rival app store installs easier

#46

Post by lern_too_spel »

rcxdude wrote: post #44
lern_too_spel wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the whole point of using an alternative app store is to be able to install apps that are NOT approved by google No, the whole point of using an alternative app store is to get better deals for developers or end users. Apps that are not approved by Google can still be installed. The whole point of app verification is to allow installation outside a system app store (e.g., directly from a website or from another app…

You say this like the scary warnings aren't an entirely artificial barrier by google. Before the app verification, I could install apps from freedroid just fine without any scary warnings.

> Before the app verification, I could install apps from freedroid just fine without any scary warnings.

All Google Android builds show a scary warning before you can install apps outside the system app stores. That's why the judge's ruling required Google to do away with the scary warning, leading to app verification, which accomplishes what the judge required. If you don't use a Google Android build, neither app verification nor the new unknown source installation flow affect you.

Re: 'Not acceptable': Judge orders Google to make rival app store installs easier

#47

Post by lern_too_spel »

ColdStream wrote: post #43
chapz wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

App verification means, Google can deny apps entry into Android for whatever reason Google comes up with. There are no clear and objective rules nor are there any real options to object. And that is the problem. Google can just deny anything that does stuff in a creative new way or that poses a competitive risk. And, if Google decides you are not comming in, there is no warning you can click to go around that.

I do fear for all these youtube alternative app developers. If I was building them, no way am I handing over my personal ID to Google. They would leverage that almost immediately.

They will continue to not verify their identity with Google, the same as they do now. This is where the new unknown sources installation flow comes in. In the future, their users on Google Android devices will have to enable developer mode in order to install these apps. On the plus side, this setting will persist when users migrate to new devices, unlike now. On the minus side, there is no reason this should require enabling developer mode. This is what people should be complaining about.

Re: 'Not acceptable': Judge orders Google to make rival app store installs easier

#48

Post by NewJazz »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #45
NewJazz wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think it is your place to tell people where to prioritize their personal lobbying efforts? Btw very few of the apps on my phone are from the play store, so not sure what you're on about.

> Why do you think it is your place to tell people where to prioritize their personal lobbying efforts? If you lobby for something that is obviously nonsensical, you are wasting your time. I am educating people in order to prevent them from wasting their time and hopefully accomplish something useful instead. > Btw very few of the apps on my phone are from the play store, so not sure what you're on about. If you use…

I am educating people

You didn't even provide a reason why it is "obviously nonsensical".

Re: 'Not acceptable': Judge orders Google to make rival app store installs easier

#49

Post by lern_too_spel »

NewJazz wrote: post #48
lern_too_spel wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do you think it is your place to tell people where to prioritize their personal lobbying efforts? If you lobby for something that is obviously nonsensical, you are wasting your time. I am educating people in order to prevent them from wasting their time and hopefully accomplish something useful instead. > Btw very few of the apps on my phone are from the play store, so not sure what you're on about. If you use…

I am educating people You didn't even provide a reason why it is "obviously nonsensical".

See my original comment. To repeat, app verification makes it strictly easier to install apps as required by the judge's ruling. Asking your legislator to stop app verification will get you laughed at. My original comment also explains what you should complain about instead to not get laughed at and to fix something that actually needs fixing.

Re: 'Not acceptable': Judge orders Google to make rival app store installs easier

#50

Post by rcxdude »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #46
rcxdude wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say this like the scary warnings aren't an entirely artificial barrier by google. Before the app verification, I could install apps from freedroid just fine without any scary warnings.

> Before the app verification, I could install apps from freedroid just fine without any scary warnings. All Google Android builds show a scary warning before you can install apps outside the system app stores. That's why the judge's ruling required Google to do away with the scary warning, leading to app verification, which accomplishes what the judge required. If you don't use a Google Android build, neither app ve…

They showed one warning once when I installed Freedroid, and that's it. There was no extra steps needed on each install from Freedroid.
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