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Seven books I keep close because I love them

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Re: Seven books I keep close because I love them

#101

Post by Mtinie »

jibal wrote: post #94
Mtinie wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak for the OP, but in my research, the translation works out to be: "Let me die with the foreigners" I usually see "foreigners" replaced with "Philistines" (as noted above). It's Samson's line just before he braces against the pillars and brings the building down on himself and the thousands of Philistines inside, so I understand why it is usually translated that way. Also, ψυχή here renders Hebrew nephesh…

But the original Hebrew word is "פְּלִשְׁתִּים֒" which is "Philistines", not "foreigners". P.S. My only reaction to the response is "whoosh!".

I don't think that disagrees with what I said. I was translating the Greek, not the Hebrew. But you're right the Hebrew פְּלִשְׁתִּים֒ is unambiguously "Philistines."

The Greek quoted above is from the Septuagint, and those translators rendered that word as ἀλλόφυλοι, roughly "those of another tribe." So "foreigners" is the closest I have in English to the Greek word, and "Philistines" is who it refers to.

I'm no scholar here, just a dabbler, so I'm happy the discussion is happening at all.

Re: Seven books I keep close because I love them

#102

Post by mjd »

roughly wrote: post #95

This is a solid collection, one that shows real intellectual curiosity. Something that would be interesting to add would be something that falls entirely out of the canon of Western philosophy - you have what is by all measures a diverse sampling of the various permutations of the intellectual procession of western thinking, but nothing reflecting traditions from outside that procession, eg Chinese, Islamic, Indian,…

I do own more than these seven books.

Re: Seven books I keep close because I love them

#103

Post by Mtinie »

jibal wrote: post #94
Mtinie wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak for the OP, but in my research, the translation works out to be: "Let me die with the foreigners" I usually see "foreigners" replaced with "Philistines" (as noted above). It's Samson's line just before he braces against the pillars and brings the building down on himself and the thousands of Philistines inside, so I understand why it is usually translated that way. Also, ψυχή here renders Hebrew nephesh…

But the original Hebrew word is "פְּלִשְׁתִּים֒" which is "Philistines", not "foreigners". P.S. My only reaction to the response is "whoosh!".

In that case I'll consider myself whooshed.

Re: Seven books I keep close because I love them

#104

Post by burkaman »

ntdef wrote: post #69

The New International Version (NIV) translation of the Bible is by far the worst translation on almost any metric you can think of, except maybe understanding how evangelical Christians read the Bible in the 90s and 2000s. The NIV has so many inexcusable translations that reinforce a theological worldview that matched the conversation on atonement and justification that was happening in the 90s and 2000s. There's a g…

It is still the most popular English-language version according to https://christianbookexpo.com/bestseller/translations.php?id..., so for his goal ("there is no way to understand 21st-century America without understanding the Bible") I think it's the right choice.

Re: Seven books I keep close because I love them

#105

Post by 1123581321 »

agaj-nimm wrote: post #85
1123581321 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Through a glass darkly, if you will. :)

Have you read Patton's poem by that title? It's not great but it's a fascinating window into the beliefs of a major historical figure. In my experience there's a lot of support for reincarnation in judeo-christian scripture, when you read it open to that interpretation.

I hadn't read it until now. Interesting find! I wonder why he chose that title as the teleology of I Cor 13:12 seems straightforward.

Re: Seven books I keep close because I love them

#106

Post by frollogaston »

ntdef wrote: post #69

The New International Version (NIV) translation of the Bible is by far the worst translation on almost any metric you can think of, except maybe understanding how evangelical Christians read the Bible in the 90s and 2000s. The NIV has so many inexcusable translations that reinforce a theological worldview that matched the conversation on atonement and justification that was happening in the 90s and 2000s. There's a g…

I've only ever read KJV and haven't heard of the others. Is the downside that KJV is 1600s English? That particular line:

KJV: For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

NRSV: For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh. I can will what is right, but I cannot do it.

NIV: For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.

So KJV and NRSV agree.

Re: Seven books I keep close because I love them

#108

Post by frollogaston »

WalterBright wrote: post #61

I discovered that when I want to find the translation of a German word, it is far quicker to open a dictionary and flip to the word than open google, select the language, and type in the word. Flipping pages in a book still has not been matched by computer text.

Binary search is strong

Re: Seven books I keep close because I love them

#109

Post by frollogaston »

bananamogul wrote: post #37
i_am_a_peasant wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same, not a believer, I appreciate KJV for its artistic value and it being referenced in so much literature and cinema.

Am a believer, and appreciate the KJV for its language. However, it can be tricky, because words change over 400 years. So while there are many wonderfully translated passages that use very expressive language, you also have passages that are full of words that seem similar but actually are easy to confuse. For example: - "Prevent" in 1611 meant "go before, precede". Now it means "stop from happening". - "Suffer" in…

I get that, but KJV is referenced so much that I find it's worth just dealing with it and learning the 1600s differences along the way. Plus those differences are interesting in of themselves.

Re: Seven books I keep close because I love them

#110

Post by agaj-nimm »

1123581321 wrote: post #105
agaj-nimm wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you read Patton's poem by that title? It's not great but it's a fascinating window into the beliefs of a major historical figure. In my experience there's a lot of support for reincarnation in judeo-christian scripture, when you read it open to that interpretation.

I hadn't read it until now. Interesting find! I wonder why he chose that title as the teleology of I Cor 13:12 seems straightforward.

My read is that cor 13:12 is about seeing life from both sides, flesh and spirit. Some things are clearer on either side, and we learn from alternating.
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